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There was some discussion last year on how good the singing was at the Katoomba mens convention.

I was briefly talking to a man at church who had been to a mens convention at Katoomba recently. Yes the singing is usually good. But they now seem to be moving towards the new modern songs. And the standard of singing is not the same.

That brings me back to my comment that people don’t know the modern songs. It is not that they don’t want to sing. It is that they don’t know the songs, and so they can’t join whole heartedly in the singing.

Add to that the fact that some of those songs are fiendishly difficult, and it is no wonder that people can’t sing.

In our church some Townend/Getty songs are being introduced. They at least are singable by ordinary people.

I think the key is to introduce new songs slowly.  Give people a good shot at learning them over a month or two, say with increased frequency (e.g. 2-4 times in the first two months). 

There are always some good new songs that are quite singable, the trick is to actually pick them then use them!

Arthur Lee - 09 March 2009 08:57 AM

I think the key is to introduce new songs slowly.  Give people a good shot at learning them over a month or two, say with increased frequency (e.g. 2-4 times in the first two months). 

There are always some good new songs that are quite singable, the trick is to actually pick them then use them!

Couldn’t agree more Arthur. But in some churches people are not given this option.

Hey Elly,

I was at MKC last weekend which was my first time.

If you looked at the demograhpic who were there, the average age would have easily been early 40’s to 50’s (middle age white guys as one friend has put it).

The issue vis-a-vis music is that for those of us younger than this (though at 34 I am catching up!) many of the older songs are unfamiliar and so perhaps equally as problematic to sing as the new stuff is to the older guys.

MKC’s issue, of course, is that by not at least trying to recognise and cater for this they will not attract the younger guys and the conference may slowly dwindle.

For last weekend specifically, I would say that the music was generally done very well, though there are some criticisms (hopefully constructive):

1) The two guys leading the singing were both playing guitars as well and quite a few times were too distracted playing their instrument rather than leading the singing. They had 3 guitars in the band so could have afforded to drop on and let that guys just sing.

2) Some of the newer songs were just plain awkward to sing, particularly regarding lyrical timing. This is a big bugbear of mine that some (many?) of the “evanglical” modern music can be just scripture force fit to music - theologically true and robust, but not well constructed as congregational songs.

The same tension is true for sunday gatherings.

Jeff

Jeff Atack - 12 March 2009 08:05 AM

MKC’s issue, of course, is that by not at least trying to recognise and cater for this they will not attract the younger guys and the conference may slowly dwindle.

Hi Jeff,

I had thought that the ‘teaching’ was why we went along to such gatherings. Is singing really such a high priority as a reason for attendance ( or non-attendance ) for ‘younger guys’ ? Sounds a bit shallow to me.

BTW - for those of us who are ‘slightly’ older than 34, remember that a lot of us baby boomers were there at the beginning of rock and roll and needn’t be thought of as just “Rock of Ages cleft to me” fans. Rock on ! Give me a dose of Larry Norman anyday.

People go for a number of reasons I suppose Kevin - fellowship, teaching, singing, encouragement.

On the teaching topic, remember that the rise of the internet sermon has provided much good teaching (and much crap teaching) on tap, so for better or for worse one does not have to go to MKC to access such teaching. If the rest of the conference does not appeal to the younger generation (not just music, but other elements as well) then they will most likely stay away. If it is deemed important that the younger guys attend then we can’t just yell from the top of the mountain “come on…you guys are just shallow”

Besides, it’s not really fair to give them a hard time on this issue…after all, the bible doesn’t say “thou shall attend MKC”

I don’t think we ought to put it down as shallow when people feel a need to engage with the music.
The unique value of singing is it engages both the mind and the emotions.
Have a look at this article building passion for God which discusses the value of emotions. 

I read a very interesting article in the February 28 edition of the Sydney Morning Herald.  It was about the way we make decisions. In it, the writer argued that traditionally we have thought that emotions get in the way of making right decisions, but now there is clinical evidence that indicates emotions are crucial in decision making.

The article narrates the story of a man who, because of a brain tumour, lost all ability to have emotions. This caused him to become a “dispassionate, uninvolved spectator”. 

The man’s neurologist concluded that: “cut off from our feelings, the most banal decisions become impossible. A brain that can’t feel can’t make up its mind”.

At this moment, no one knows whether this hypothesis is correct, and I am not even sure if the reporting is accurate or complete, but it did make me think again about emotions and how Christians should respond to them.

The English Reformers understood the truth of this argument, not from science but by observation and reflection on Scripture.

Their catchphrase was “what the heart desires, the will chooses and the mind justifies”. They saw that our decisions had their genesis in emotions.

Later reformers, rightly I think, argued that our passions either incline us toward God and obedience to him, or disincline toward these things.

The work of the Spirit, in part, is to transform our passions to be inclined toward God, and that will incline our wills toward our Lord. It seems this is part of what Paul is on about in Romans 12 about being transformed by the renewal of our minds.

Where does that leave us?

Along with the author of the article we need to consider our emotions/passions as part of the growth toward maturity and right thinking and action.

Among other things, in our ministry to each other we will recognise that many decisions pre-exist in an embryonic sense - even before they are made - because the heart and will are inclined in a certain direction. This means that we should not under-estimate the effect of the godly example of others that will shape the way we think about things. It will not under-estimate the effect of reminding people from the Scriptures what God has done for us in Christ, and what he will yet do as we proceed toward glory. That will change our emotions and passions in a way that inclines our wills toward God and away from the idols that present themselves to us every day.

As I said, I am not sure whether the facts behind the Herald article has any scientific credibility, but I know that part of the way we minister to one another must be to help lay down passions inclined toward God, and this is so often achieved by the drip method over time.

I’m not saying good teaching doesn’t engage the emotions, as well as the mind.  But when the music isn’t doing what we feel and know it should be, it’s not wrong to feel and express a lack.