The Catch the Fire Ministries has tried to blame the bushfires disaster on laws decriminalising abortion in Victoria.
The Pentecostal church’s leader, Pastor Danny Nalliah, claimed he had a dream about raging fires on October 21 last year and that he woke with “a flash from the Spirit of God: that His conditional protection has been removed from the nation of Australia, in particular Victoria, for approving the slaughter of innocent children in the womb”.
[...]
Asked by the Herald if he did not believe most Australians would regard his remarks as being in appallingly bad taste, he said today: “I must tell people what they need to hear, not what they want to hear.”
[ Edited: 10 February 2009 05:51 PM by Luke Stevens]
He quoted a headline describing the fires as “The Darkest hour for Victoria”. “A few months ago the news media should have reported `the darkest hour for the unborn’, but unfortunately the `Decriminalisation of Abortion bill’ went through parliament and was passed, thus making many people call Victoria `the baby killing state of Australia,’ ” Mr Nalliah said.
Pastor Nalliah said there may be criticism. But he said he did not send out his media statement thoughtlessly. “We spend two days working on it.”
He had previously said drought and the world financial crisis could be partly blamed on human sin.
Yep. There’s always some weirdo cultish figure that uses events like this and generally embarrasses the Lord he/she professes to serve. EG: What was the name of the USA gay-basher that would rant at US soldier’s funerals?
What about 9/11? I heard that’s in the book of Revelation somewhere. ;-) Nothing bad can happen to Western Christians, and if it does, we have to have some kind of “special interpretation”.
(Edit to change tone… sorry about that only 3 hours sleep last night… and add…)
Singling out any one sin as “THE” cause of XYZ disaster is just blowing so much smoke across so many congregations eyes. It’s shallow attention grabbing at its worst. They need to revisit their Genesis 101 and get back to the roots of it all, weeds, sweat, toil, pain in childbearing, the whole deal. Suffering is dealt out in the Lord’s own mysterious wisdom. But the particular temptation to go looking for a “reason” is as old as superstition and humanity itself. Jesus contemporaries wanted to blame the sin of the victims of natural disasters in their day. When questioned why a particular tower fell on certain victims, Jesus basically turned it back on the inquirers and asked them what they were doing about the sin in THEIR own lives. And I think that’s where we should look first.
From Luke 13
Repent or Perish
1Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 2Jesus answered, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? 3I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. 4Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? 5I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.”
I’m not sure that calling anyone an idiot is helpful though there’s good reason to argue that what Nalliah said was foolish and a misrepresentation of scripture.
Western Australia decriminalised abortion over a decade ago, and we’ve had no bushfires of this scale in that time.
With apologies to Danny Nalilah, and to Dave Lankshear, it’s got little to do with abortion or supposedly unique climate conditions (Geoffrey Blainey thinks 1851 was much worse, for instance), and everything to do with forest management - i.e. there is none these days since they banished first the Aborigines, who burned it regularly, and then the timber-workers who logged it regularly, from these neighbourhoods.
FESA in WA conducts regular winter burning - there are the usual complaints about smoke over the city spoiling the taste of everyone’s latte, but thankfully they’ve been largely ignored.
But even in WA, people will build houses right up against forest landscapes - it’s beautiful but incredibly dangerous.
It’s both climate and forestry management and overpopulation forcing more people to seek the solitude of the bush. But we can do the climate thing in another thread if you wish… if I have the time.
There is more to the Victorian abortion issue than “mere” decriminalisation. The really controversial aspect of the law, as I understand it, is a provision that makes it illegal for a doctor who doesn’t support abortion not to refer a patient seeking an abortion to a doctor who is willing to perform one. Thus, it is an issue of the state deciding to override Christian conscience, which in some ways is a much more serious spiritual issue (due to what it says about the attitude of the state towards Christian viewpoints).
It was for this reason that there were major protests by most of the Christian churches in Victoria (not just the Charismatic fringe) back in October last year, including a multi-denominational prayer march / rally to Parliament House.
In this context, the idea of prophecy against a government makes more sense to me than it would otherwise, and it also seems that (judging by various posts on the Catch the Fire website) that Danny Nalliah was not alone in predicting extreme fires of the kind that occurred last Saturday.
So, it sounds completely nutty at first glance, but I’m not sure that it can be dismissed quite as bluntly as most people (including myself) would like to do. The biblical question that it raises, and must be judged against, is the idea of prophecy against a state for its treatment of believers, not for abortion per se. Does anyone have any views on this - I am honestly not quite sure what to think at this stage….
[ Edited: 11 February 2009 05:42 AM by David Ball]
I read this earlier today.
Nalliah is a first rate, number one grade idiot for saying this stuff.
I didn’t think much of the first round and I think even less of this.
The connection between the fires and abortion is thin, and relying on his dream as some sort of confirmation isn’t anywhere near my agenda.
I’d be walking out of that church lemme tell you.
Noting that the vast majority of the Christian response to the fires has been to donate and pray, a very different response to this, I doubt that the world will lump in nutters like Danny Nalliah with the rest of us. People in political authority on the other hand would be different (Bill Hefferman, Fred Nile etc)
Haven’t thought through on David B’s question, my brain is fried at the moment.
Is it in bad taste to suggest the irony inherent in the name of Nalliah’s “Catch the Fire” ministries? Personally, if I was looking for potential arsonists, I’d be looking in his direction. He certainly has inflamed the situation, pun intended.
Just out of interest, is Nalliah just now coming out of the woodwork and talking about the dream he allegedly had last year, or did he warn last year that Victoria would be facing bushfires if it passed its abortion laws? One of those scenarios is prophecy, the other quite clearly is not.
Just out of interest, is Nalliah just now coming out of the woodwork and talking about the dream he allegedly had last year, or did he warn last year that Victoria would be facing bushfires if it passed its abortion laws? One of those scenarios is prophecy, the other quite clearly is not.
Just found this in CTFM’s archives from November 2008 :
STOP PRESS - URGENT PRAYER NEEDED REGARDING AUSTRALIA, ESPECIALLY THE STATE OF VICTORIA!!!
Published November 7th, 2008
Dear Friends and Family in Christ,
On Wednesday the 22nd of October 2008 at the Catch the Fire weekly fasting and prayer meeting in Melbourne, Pastor Danny shared with his core team of around 40 intercessory prayer warriors, a dream of serious warning that he received from the Lord the night before!
Pastor Danny stated, “I saw a man firing randomly with a weapon at people on the streets and many were falling dead. I was very disturbed and was crying. Then the scene changed and I saw fire everywhere with flames burning very high and uncontrollably. With this I awoke from my dream with the interpretation as the following words came to me in a flash from the Spirit of God, ‘My wrath is about to be released upon Australia, in particular Victoria, for approving the slaughter of the innocent children in the womb. Now, call on My people to repent and pray!’”
In these perilous Last Days before the Second Coming of Jesus Christ as The King of kings and The LORD of lords, we His Church can cry unto Him for mercy through corporate repentance and united prayer! Let’s not wait for the disaster to come but let’s be pro-active!
We at Catch the Fire Ministries encourage the whole Body of Christ to join us in His imperative cry through His Word, “If My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn away from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land!” 2 Chronicles 7:14
Interestingly, shortly after Pastor Danny had the dream the following caption ‘Horror fire warning’ appeared in an article in the Herald Sun Newspaper on the 2nd November.( *** below )
Please pass this critical info throughout your respected congregation, denomination, ministry, movement, and additional spheres of Kingdom influence!
Rising Up Australia and the Nations as His Kingdom Comes,
Article from: Sunday Herald Sun
Peter Rolfe
November 02, 2008
MELBOURNE’S urban areas and precious water supplies have been identified as major fire danger zones ahead of an impending horror bushfire season.
Fire chiefs have warned of an extreme season expected to come earlier and last longer following a record dry start to spring and forecasts of a hot summer.
Melbourne’s urban fringe has been identified as a particular risk zone, with the Mornington Peninsula, the Dandenongs and the Alexandra and Macedon regions told they should be on high alert.
Far East Gippsland and communities north of Horsham and around Bendigo have also been warned they are at risk of severe bushfires, fuelled by the absence of spring rainfall.
Department of Sustainability and Environment chief fire officer Ewan Waller said the threat was genuine.
“We’re quite concerned about those areas because they’re all populated and to be dry at this time of year means the fire season will come earlier,” he said.
“Conditions are deteriorating and that means a big bushfire threat.”
Mr Waller said Melbourne’s water supplies, including the Thomson, Sugarloaf and Silvan reservoirs, could be contaminated by charcoal and sediment stirred up by fire
“Those areas are rapidly drying out and becoming susceptible to bushfires,” he said.
If dams were polluted it could have a disastrous impact on the city’s supply, forcing draconian short-term restrictions.
Melbourne experienced its driest September and October on record this year, Victorian Bureau of Meteorology figures reveal.
A little more than 26mm of rain fell in Victoria during the period, surpassing the previous low of 35.2mm set in 1914.
Statewide, Victoria had its third driest start to spring of all time.
Fire restrictions commenced in some parts of Victoria this weekend.
Good grief, what a freaken’ hack. Interesting to see he hedged his bets with the “I saw a man firing randomly with a weapon at people on the streets” line.
The Herald Sun runs the “Horror fire warning” on Nov 2, CTFM then published on Nov 7 claiming that Nalliah had his magical dream in Oct 22.
However, CTFM didn’t publish anything on their website about the dream prior to Nov 7 (or prior to the Herald Sun article) as far as I can see. He was interviewed on the radio about his various political views earlier in October, they published that on Oct 22 (and plenty after), so it’s not like they just didn’t get around to it. He allegedly had the dream the night of Oct 22 I take it, but they didn’t mention it until Nov 7.
Hah *listens to the interview* he also thinks Obama is a Muslim and a terrorist sympathizer, and argues both points in the interview. What a nutbar.
Yeah, I agree that the “evidence” supporting this as “prophecy” is extremely dodgy, which makes my question about biblical precedent academic (but still interesting, I think) unless there is other corroborative evidence that pre-dates November 2.
He’s offensive and uses his “prophecies” to build his reputation as a man who is unafraid to speak the “truth”.
I have no use for his ilk.
I seem to remember some YECS crowd attributing Cyclone damage to Darwin as a result of the place being named after that naughty man with “that theory”.
Maybe he’s trying to find or at least attribute meaning to the fires. That is vaguely understandable, but to do it by being so incredibly inaccurate and offensive is ludicrous. He has nothing to say to me that I will listen to except, perhaps “goodbye”.
Danny Nalliah, the head of Catch the Fire ministries - convinced that Canberra witches’ covens had cursed our federal government with blood sacrifices on Mount Ainslie - gathered some 50 Christians to the North Canberra mountain to drive Beelzebub out.
[...] Catch the Fire has cottoned on to the rest of Australia’s mocking pretty quickly (see here). In response, Pastor Danny went on radio to explain this act of “spiritual warfare”. He said witches have cast spells on our politicians to make more liberal laws about homosexuals and abortions and if we don’t do something soon (like a mass prayer to ask God to get back on our side) we’re going to have more natural disasters, including bush fires.
I wonder what his position on global warming is? We very well COULD be facing more bushfires and natural disasters as Co2 levels increase, trapping in more heat (according to the Radiative Forcing Equation). Eeeewww. I’m imagining him interpreting this to his own ends in the years to come… oh man.
(Shakes head in wonder at the embarrassing way some Christians will behave).
It is 11.50pm on Friday night the 7th of January. You might wonder what I am doing in my office at this time. Well we are all at the all night prayer meeting at the CTFM base. We started the prayer meeting at 7.30pm and would be finishing at 6am but this issue was so urgent, I thought I must get the info out to you as soon as possible, so that we can repent on behalf of Australia.
Around 8pm on Friday night the 7th of January we had a strong prompting by the Holy Spirit to repent on behalf of Australia. As we started doing so, I was reminded that every time America went against Israel, there was disaster in the land and this has been documented over the years.
Then at once I was reminded of Kevin Rudd speaking against Israel in Israel on 14th December 2010. It is very interesting that Kevin Rudd is from QLD. Is God trying to get our attention? Yes, I believe so.
Also the Lord said to us, “ I will humble Australia and bring her down on her knees. As she has taken pride in my blessing, and man has taken the glory and not given it to Me”.
Right now (12.30am - just after midnight) around 40 intercessors are crying out to the Lord and repenting on behalf of what Rudd has done against Israel. When I opened my email to write to you, I found the following email in my inbox and was amazed as to how God spoke to us about the same issue.
I have pasted below an article that some media are running with - BUT - only Bill Koenig has picked up the “spiritual ramifications” of this event & has been able to link it to the devastating floods in Queensland….Kevin Rudd’s home state!
Here’s the link to the original story from Bill Koenig (scroll down to find the article) http://www.watch.org/
Australia’s Rudd urged Israel to join the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) and open all its nuclear facilities to UN inspectors
Foreign Minister Kevin Rudd has wrapped up a visit to the Middle East by telling Israel it should allow UN inspectors into its nuclear facilities.
His comments on Israel’s nuclear program gave Israeli officials an unpleasant surprise, as they were published online during a gala dinner in Jerusalem marking the friendship between Australia and Israel.
In an interview with the Australian newspaper, Mr Rudd not only called on Israel to join the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), but said it should open all its nuclear facilities to UN inspectors.
Australia flood rescue and relief efforts are under way to deal with what officials have called a “disaster of biblical proportions.”
Zechariah 12:3,9 “And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem”.
Please, Please, Please take some time to stand in the Gap for our nation Australia and repent and pray as in 2 Chronicals 7:14.
Your bro in Christ,
Pr Daniel Nalliah
Catch the Fire Ministires
Your bro in Christ indeed…
[ Edited: 11 January 2011 05:37 PM by Luke Stevens]
HI Luke, I followed the first link to the above “Catch the Fire” story - and read the readers’ comments - many of which are in similar vain to Danny’s comments.
The thought that I have been pursuing at in past months, is HOW exactly does God intervene in man’s affairs ? And WHEN ? Is prayer useful or does it just make us feel happy and religious ?
Rather than dismiss the idea of an interventionist God, I think this whole area needs to be discussed and analysed. If not here, perhaps as a new topic.
Pentecostal Minister Says God Is Punishing Australia; Baptist Leader Counters :
Pentecostal Minister Says God Is Punishing Australia; Baptist Leader Counters
Australian Baptist leader Rod Benson told EthicsDaily.com he had prepared a one-minute social commentary, “Danny Nalliah Strikes Again,” on Nalliah’s statement. Sydney radio will broadcastthe statement Sunday, Jan. 16.
“Mr. Nalliah’s God is a capricious caricature of the Christian God, a malevolent dictator bound by the foreign policy of the Bush administration, who is appeased by groveling,” Benson writes in his commentary.
Benson is an ethicist and public theologian at the Tinsley Institute (Morling College), a Baptist college in Sydney.
“Mr. Nalliah may be a sincere believer, but he shows the marks of a false prophet and an opportunist,” Benson’s statement continues. “In 2008 he claimed the Victorian bushfires were God’s answer to that state’s abortion laws; and in August last year he was caught out claiming that’godless’ Julia Gillard [Australia’s current prime minister] would lose the federal election.”
“Mr. Nalliah, your careless words bring disrepute on all Christians, and secular Australia shakes its head in disbelief,” Benson says. “When will you learn that with religious leadership comes civic responsibility?”...........
Brian Winslade, national director of Australian Baptist Ministries, called on Baptist pastors and church leaders to pray for “those affected by these devastating deluges” and those in leadership of relief and recovery programs.
“For some reason beyond our human understanding, God has allowed Queensland to experience unprecedented rainfall and flooding,” said Winslade. “Yet in God’s goodness and faithfulness, we affirm our trust, and in the power of the Holy Spirit seek to care for our brothers and sisters in whatever way we can.”.........
Hi Ros, unusual for me but ( being in a rush ) I forgot to add the link - which I have now attached to #23.
Don’t have the radio link yet - but will try to trace it down. Cheers
ADDED : Cannot trace - but as it’s a one minute “social commentary” maybe it’ll be played on 103.2fm or similar. I’ll have to leave it at that for now.
[ Edited: 15 January 2011 06:37 PM by Kevin Goddard]
[null]Obama vs. Catholics, Catholics vs. ObamaNew York Times (blog)[{}]This would frame the issue as yet another intra-Catholic dispute over sexuality and abortion, rather than an external assault on Catholic religious liberty. Seen in this light, Georgetown University's decision to invite Kathleen Sebelius, ...
[null]Rally fights for abortion law changeThe West Australian[{}]Liberal MP Peter Abetz has spoken out against WA's abortion laws, warning "the womb is most dangerous place for children to be in this State" at a rally last night attended by hundreds of right-to-life campaigners. Addressing the 750-strong rally at ...
[null]As Obama Seeks the Votes of WomenNew York Times[{}]Ms. Brown seems to scorn Mr. Obama's support for women's efforts to get a “seat at the table,” but I found it more disturbing that a number of her friends and family members “all laughed” over whether contraception or abortion rights were key in their ...
[null]Pastor wants gays held in electric penThe West Australian[{}]And, in reference to President Obama's same-sex marriage and pro-choice abortion stance , when asked who he'll vote for in the Presidential election, Mr Worley said: "I'm not going to vote for a baby killer and a homosexual lover.and more»
Pastor wants gays held in electric pen The West Australian And, in reference to President Obama's same-sex marriage and pro-choice abortion stance , when asked who he'll vote for in the Presidential election, Mr Worley said: "I'm not going to vote for a baby killer and a homosexual lover.
RSS Feed