It’s a shameful read for anyone that missed it. Apparently God’s told this joker that the bushfires are God’s judgement on abortion.
I want to know when we get the special bushfires of judgement for all the dishonouring our parents that goes around… but where is the modern prophet that will take up that cause? (Or is it that our modern “prophets” are just one issue voters and that comes out in their thinking and theology? Maybe they’re a bit partial to the dishonouring of parents anyway. ;-)
Singling out any one sin as “THE” cause of XYZ disaster is just blowing so much smoke across so many congregations eyes. It’s shallow attention grabbing at its worst.
( I first put this article on the ‘Danny N. thread’, but think it should be placed here as well. ) Mr Waller’s warnings seem somewhat sobering in the light of recent days.
Water supplies, urban fringe at risk
Article from: Sunday Herald Sun
Peter Rolfe
November 02, 2008
MELBOURNE’S urban areas and precious water supplies have been identified as major fire danger zones ahead of an impending horror bushfire season.
Fire chiefs have warned of an extreme season expected to come earlier and last longer following a record dry start to spring and forecasts of a hot summer.
Melbourne’s urban fringe has been identified as a particular risk zone, with the Mornington Peninsula, the Dandenongs and the Alexandra and Macedon regions told they should be on high alert.
Far East Gippsland and communities north of Horsham and around Bendigo have also been warned they are at risk of severe bushfires, fuelled by the absence of spring rainfall.
Department of Sustainability and Environment chief fire officer Ewan Waller said the threat was genuine.
“We’re quite concerned about those areas because they’re all populated and to be dry at this time of year means the fire season will come earlier,” he said.
“Conditions are deteriorating and that means a big bushfire threat.”
Mr Waller said Melbourne’s water supplies, including the Thomson, Sugarloaf and Silvan reservoirs, could be contaminated by charcoal and sediment stirred up by fire
“Those areas are rapidly drying out and becoming susceptible to bushfires,” he said.
If dams were polluted it could have a disastrous impact on the city’s supply, forcing draconian short-term restrictions.
Melbourne experienced its driest September and October on record this year, Victorian Bureau of Meteorology figures reveal.
A little more than 26mm of rain fell in Victoria during the period, surpassing the previous low of 35.2mm set in 1914.
Statewide, Victoria had its third driest start to spring of all time.
Fire restrictions commenced in some parts of Victoria this weekend.
Just talking to Ian lawther at Healesville and he and his family are sitting tight with all the fire up wind from them at the moment ......about a kilometre away I think he said.
Ian was over on the SydAng forum but his eyesight is holding him up a little with joining here but he assures me he is reading some bits but getting here slowly. Also being an old chippie who has always only ever used a builders pencil on a piece of wood to communicate with anyone…..it’s coming slowly heheheheheeeee
he and his family are well…..but madly making plans for a bunker ......reckons they would have had more sleep in the last week if they’d had a bunker :nodding smilie:
plans are being drawn as I type i believe .....they have a bobcat/backhoe in the family .......but I thought he said he’s having the excavator in for this job.
My brothers house is at Wesburn but it’s a newie and they have stripped the pictures etc and marked the house empty/vacant (with contact numbers) and gone back to their other place in ringwood .....mainly to get out of the way. I tend to agree with my bros logic….he’s too old to fight with the CFA and he’s a builder and reckons he’s still got the plans to the house and will do it again if need be. His place is in the main street of Wesburn and should be safe anyway. He’s also offered it for family accomodation to the red cross for 12mths if they want it…..good and close for someone with a family trying to rebuild.
[ Edited: 12 February 2009 11:27 AM by michael scull]
Here’s a tag to the Vic Fire Map that is the best source of what’s happening where. Vic Fires
I use it all the time during the fire season but this year I keep seeing it overloaded which stops us using it as it should be used…...bummer it is!
also they need some system that sets off the computer somehow if you preset area warnings for your place…..I can set up with software for a local wind or weather warning but nothing I know of for a fire warning being sounded for an area.
Lots of us have gone wireless internet so we can maintain communications when the phones down and grids down…..lappys and solar panels most are heading toward ....while I haven’t seen anything coming from the other side of the server .....privatisation means it will needs a nudge I suppose.
Watched the moon rise last night and a beautiful orangey red ball it was in the bushfire smoke.
Woke to the pungent smell of old smoke and went outside to find we have a beautiful still sunny morning ....pinch chilly but shorts weather. Shame is we are surrounded by smoke here today .....means the firies will have an easier time of it today ........just got to get ahead of that afternoon breeze and possible change.
Good luck to them all today .......as I know they’ll use the opportunity ........moving my backhoe/loader back to my patch today for the same reason ......my old johnnys been on loan pushing scrub away from houses in Rheola .......time to come home and look after her owners house ;)
“TWO DAYS IN HELL” – FOUR CORNERS MONDAY 16 FEBRUARY 2009
Next on Four Corners… They had been warned, they thought they had made the necessary preparations but nothing could prepare the people of Victoria for the fireball that swept through their state. How did it happen? What were the conditions really like that day? And what happened to the preparations so carefully made?
It’s been called the garden state but last weekend Victorians fell victim to the worst fires in recent history.
In the days that followed we’ve heard stories of horror, stories of bravery and sometimes simply tales of good luck. What no-one has been able to do so far is to detail how the crisis unfolded. What were the turning points that led to this disaster?
Four Corners details those two crucial days from the evening of Friday 6th to Sunday 8th February. Talking with survivors, fire-fighters, forecasters and doctors… the program pieces together the warnings, the preparations and the reactions of those people on the ground as the fires began to break out.
The program goes on to detail stories of survival and loss, at the same time trying to understand how despite the warnings people were still unable to defend themselves.
Kevin Tolhurst is a fire expert and ecologist. His expertise is predicting fires using an index of danger. He was called in to the Melbourne Emergency Co-ordination Centre last Saturday. As he tells the program, “we use an index developed in the fifties and sixties that goes from zero to one hundred. (In the days leading up to Saturday ) we were experiencing indexes in excess of two hundred.”
A Royal Commission has been set up to try and explain why so many people could die in such a short space of time. For now though we have only the first hand testimony of people who were there, who saw the fires take hold and those who fought for their homes or ran before the onslaught.
Reporter Quentin McDermott talks to the people who experienced “Two Days in Hell”. Monday 16 February at 8.30pm.
Man charged with fatal arson and possessing child pornography
Jane Metlikovec - February 13, 2009
UPDATE 4:00pm: A 39-YEAR-OLD man has been charged with lighting a fatal bushfire and possessing child pornography.
The suspect, who cannot be named, was charged at Morwell Magistrates’ Court with one count of arson causing death and one count of intentionally lighting a bushfire.
The arson charge carries a maximum penalty of 25 years, with the bushfire charge carrying a maximum penalty of 15 years.
Both charges relate to incidents which occurred last Saturday, February 7.
He has also been charged with possessing images of child pornography.
The suspect was arrested in Churchill yesterday at 4pm as part of Operation Winston, the local arm of the police’s Phoenix taskforce, set up to investigates Victoria’s bushfires.
Det Sen-Sgt Adam Shoesmith of the Arson Squad said the suspect was arrested in a public place and “went without a fight”.
The suspect did not attend this afternoon’s remand hearing, although he was in the court building at the time.
His legal aid defence lawyer suggested that his client was psychologically unwell.
“The accused is in a fragile mental state,” the lawyer said. “He should be seen to by a doctor.”
The suspect did not make an application for bail and was remanded to appear at Melbourne Magistrates’ Court for a filing hearing on Monday, 16 February.
This is an amazing photo. Click on the link, wait for it to load - and then, by moving your mouse, you’ll be able to experience a 360 degree view of a totally burnt out forest. Unbelievable and utter devestation beyond words.
There also needs to be more importance laid on the WIND factor. It is not only a cool change that brings relief - it is the fact that the wind died down. It is not only the heat. A few years ago we had bushfires in NSW in the winter. Why? It was very windy.
[ Edited: 15 February 2009 05:33 AM by Elly Byrne]
I’ll say it again… overpopulation. Too many people = more people living in the bush than ever before = disaster waiting to happen, especially as the climate shifts.
I cringed when Kevin Rudd promised to rebuild towns that have been wiped clean off the map. Do we want more families to burn to death? What on earth is it like to try driving out of one of these places and hit a blast-front of 2000 to 3000 degrees? As you watch your car start to melt, you glance down and see that your nose is on fire, and your kids scream in the back seat…
Just how many people do we want to exit this world that way? But of course, everyone has the “right” to do this, that, and the other… and no politician is going to show some real leadership and actually LISTEN to the scientists for once. So it will happen again… and again…. until we learn. The hard way.
I’ll say it again… overpopulation. Too many people = more people living in the bush than ever before = disaster waiting to happen, especially as the climate shifts.
I cringed when Kevin Rudd promised to rebuild towns that have been wiped clean off the map. Do we want more families to burn to death? ...... But of course, everyone has the “right” to do this, that, and the other… and no politician is going to show some real leadership and actually LISTEN to the scientists for once. So it will happen again… and again…. until we learn. The hard way.
“Overpopulation” - It is a problem - so why are we allowing 300,000 to arrive here this year ( and the next 2 as well ) adding to the problem - especially when our jobless numbers are growing - and will do so dramatically in the near future ? ( But that’s for another thread - not this one ).
I don’t know about listening to scientists, but I heard this week that Victorian Liberal Premier Rupert Hamer’s government bought back over 1200 blocks of land in the 1970’s from people wanting to live in such forested areas - but he thought it was common sense for people NOT to live in such areas which could turn into fire traps. I heard this on radio and would be interested to read any written material about this.
Hot weather and bushfires have been part of the Australian scene for 1,000’s of years. And planned effective ‘burning off’ has been practised by the aboriginals for a long time before Europeans arrived here. If only their example was properly continued to this day.
I agree with all of your points, and “sustainable immigration” is part of “Sustainable Population Australia’s” Population policy. (It’s very compassionate, and raises the refugee intake each year, while reducing our habit of “stealing doctors from India”, for example).
I think I raised above that I’m not against burning off or fire-management per se, as long as it is done with thorough ecological input. Some burning off works, indeed is required by the Australian bush to regenerate. Other types of burning off in the wrong season, or too frequently, etc can create a mono-crop of the wrong tree and denude the land of essential biodiversity.
Hamer’s buy back sounds VERY interesting, I wasn’t aware of that!
Neighbours back from the Kinglake working on the grid restoring the power .....he’s a liney and been living in the caravan park at healesville and working the Kinglake grid for the last week. The locals were told 6 weeks…..these lads worked like galley slaves and had it up an running in 2weeks….finished yesterday putting through new poles, lines, trannies and services where needed.
the crews were reconnecting houses and met and heard story after story from the locals…..Cameron didn’t take any pics as he said he was there to work and as they all found, to be an ear for a community that was in shock. No pics as he has more respect than that, but he did come away with some memorys that I doubt he will ever forget.
Monday morning the town have called a community gathering at King Lake and would like all residence to attend if possible I believe. ......Powers been re-established and now the community will at least have that small luxury.
Cams boys are proud that their dad jumped in his truck and went over there to help and so i’ll post his pic here for his boys and Cam’s mum to gander at Cameron .......just home from KingLake .....still has his name band on his arm.
Cameron is over with his boys for a barbie shortly and I believe I may hear quite a bit about this bushfire as he’s pretty well distressed and overwrought from this week up there himself. Trying to say the right thing all the time can be a strain he said earlier…power company linies are aware that grid assets are always considered fire hazards ....they would have been careful about where conversation went about asset fires as they were working as guests in another power companies franchised area.
[ Edited: 21 February 2009 05:37 PM by michael scull]
Peter Garrett to make charity comeback for fire victims
Herald Sun
February 24, 2009
PETER Garrett will make a comeback with a re-formed Midnight Oil, joining Coldplay and Kings of Leon in major bushfire benefit concerts in Sydney and Melbourne.
Environment Minister Garrett and his band will join British superstars Coldplay and US rock act Kings of Leon to headline the concerts, which feature an all-star line-up of Aussie and international acts.
Seeing he has a full time job in Sydney and Canberra, I would be certain that this is a “one-off”.
I not only won’t be in Melbourne, I won’t be in Sydney either, so I won’t be going to either concert. Pity, they sound as if they will be good shows.
According to the scientists, as reported by “Luke Chamberlain, Forest Campaigner at The Wilderness Society (Australia) about Victoria’s tragic bush fires of February 2009 and the role of Victoria’s forests in reducing the impact of global warming”, one of the unintended consequences of over-burning to remove fuel is that you select for plants that LOVE bushfire and grow back faster. So not only is there less biodiversity (the great crisis of our time which threatens many ecosystems and consequently their “ecosystem services” which act as a foundation for our modern economies), but the ultimate goals of “controlled burns” are defeated by plants that grow back faster, providing more fuel, meaning “controlled burns” have to be used even more. And it only takes guessing the wind wrong for a “controlled burn” to get out of hand anyway!
Dave, I’ve been up to Arnhem a few times invited by mates who live on the gulf up there with their families.
Every year a group do a burn there (some other I believe also) that they get payed by the mining companies .....and they pay this money to the community to burn so as to offset carbon tax.
Completely legit and sanctioned by govt ........but can’t help feeling it’s just a pay off.
I think they started this back in the 90s ....the climate scientists believe this reduction of fuel in the tropics is a feasible method of reducing carbon release if they have a bigger fire when the fuel load is at it’s greatest.
I can’t see this myself .....as the regrowth is amazing ....but in my ignorance I assume the scientists have it correct that the controlled burns the way to go and reduces the overall release of carbon against that of a wildfire.
....but why else would a mining company pay the indigenous inhabitants of an area $6 million to burn if it wasn’t so? :rolleyes:
this and many other questions I ask myself when I hear some of these ideas for victoria .
Victoria of course is a totally different kettle of fish to NT ......but the politics is the same ;)
If I understand the NT burns, as Catalyst presented them a year or so ago, it’s more about what season the regions are burnt. Summer is bad because the fire ends up too intense… the conditions are too wild and create an overly intense burn which is both bad for the ecosystem and releases extra Co2.
The other AMAZING thing across Eastern Australia is that if a super-fire wipes out hundreds or thousands of km’s of bush, the re-growth of vegetation after the fire causes an increase in the vegetation’s water needs.
Bottom line? A big enough fire can drain a catchment area of 50% to 80% of the usual water flows! We are talking about hundreds of km’s of vegetation regrowing, and sucking more water out of the soil as it attempts to obey gravity and gradually seep downhill towards the creek a few km’s away.
True story, as reported, again, on Catalyst.
I’ve been missing Catalyst this year as I do men’s group on Thursday night. D’oh! Now THERE’s an example of the “cost of commitment!” Missing Catalyst… that’s unthinkable!
I heard about that Catyst show Dave and that’s where the 6 mill came from .....my connection and where I met them was with my first wifes family at Humpty Do. They come down to their home land near Carpentaria most years and I come up through Broken Hill or Cobar where I’ve always had work along the way. It’s always been my holiday away each year and keeps me in touch with my first sons family.
And the reason I mention it .....I just find all these studys about environment and such just so much scribble on paper.
If you get out there on the ground you’ll see the place in a different light….so many wrong things going on. The amount of goats I’ve seen loaded into trucks for the asian/middle eastern market is astounding. Most stations that I know cut their merino stocks years ago…...tried the woolless meat sheep and ended up running goats.
400 in a truck at a minimum $28 /head .....you work it out. Pays the bills.
I’ve always been aware of these feral goat round-ups ......but if you look in the truck, you’ll see that they are all bucks and old does.
The other end of the property may have a land study being done by the CSIRO etc by never the two shall meet.
Everywhere I go I seem to see this crap…..the bush is fine where whitey isn’t heheheeee .....that’s the problem.
These fires in the Vic hills Dave are a little different in as much as people have the pre-conceived idea that these eucalypts will survive any fire. Well the mountain ash around most of the areas that burnt won’t take too much heat. They are not like messmates and others that have those primordial buds (must be the paint fumes) in their trunks and limbs ......these mountain ash just die with too much heat I believe.
We need our resident bloke who has a few hundred of these things.
Ian Lawther has mountain ash you can’t put your arms around right in his front yard .......he can tell you more.
I’m different ..... I live in grassland/farmland .....with two creeks lined with red gums to my nth west and coming up behind the house. I have a 4 acre firebreak between the creek and the house. Am insured with RACV and do my best with a 1000trs firefighter with 2x 100ft hoses with foggers and 2x KnapSacks and the usual crow bar to rip some sheet off the roof after it gone by.
I’m halfway between firetrucks and I make my own arrangements ......I’m a member of the CFA as is my wife ........but that’s for other fires…...not a fire that comes along from a road side idiot with a cig.
My neighbour and myself have this habit of wondering out after someone stops in town /at the crossroads here ......we see them all the time .....we are in a remote spot and they pull up to have a cig (let’s not smoke in the car) and walk around chatting and kicking rocks and as soon as they finish (especially if a few are hastling each other) some will flick the cigarette butt and jump in the car and roar off.
You just have to go and at least check if it’s a bad day ........you may think I’m full of it but i am quite serious as I’ve seen this so many times. We’ve put in a table and chairs next to our hall right where you can park so as to entice visitors away from the roadside where the crops come right up to the fence.
State govt gave us a grant and we spent $700 on this table and benchs (recycled plastic one) .....it’s not a joke has been a consideration of every community meeting for years through this drought. Most of our bushfires out this way come out of visitors or tourists. Everybody downs tools early up this way in the heat…..we’ve had a history of bad fires over the years.
I’ve just typed out a submission a neighbour has made based on the local fires and how it applies to the recent bendigo fires. this is a submission that orgininally started off as a plea to a club that this guy has been a big mover in for years. A Native Flora group who have a big say in fire breaks.
He’s begging them to lay off and let them clear ......the first submission he put in for bendigo 5 years ago .......Now it happens and he’s putting it in again with another copy off to the Royal Commission.
It’s a simple document that points out what stopped the fires here in the 60s.
Accidental fire breaks…..the 65 fire here wouldn’t have stopped but for anything but they ran out of fuel.
Nothing stops these wildfires until they have consumed all the fuel on days like we had on that Saturday. All you do is run after them.
The fires up Ians way are different ......I’ve been up there a few times since ....straight through as I didn’t rubber neck…..but have many pics that show the horror
have a look at this pic that I put together .....favourite place of mine ....the house in the top left hand side of the satellite pic is the Kinglake Rangers residence .......the street was blocked by a power pole and most were trapped .......I won’t leave it up on the net long ......but I think people need to see the facts of how bad i can be. My mate opposite took the photo from his cherry picker while he was resupplying power a few weeks back. Looking across the red dot to the bottom left hand crn of the satellite photo
Nearly everybody in that street lost their lives ....family of ten in the first house ....with respect it’s not the burn house pictured in the foreground.
I have my own ideas about greenies and the part they play in these fires.
I’m a greenie myself but not stupid like these clowns that cause stuff like this! Wooden Pole
Pleas notice the new wooden pole on the ground .....Concrete aren’t allowed in these areas ........they’d rather cut down a tree and use that!!!!!!
I find this sort of thing so stupid and this pic is going in the submission, I want to put it on the front but it will be up to him.
..........sooooooo stupid and comes out of townie thinking I believe !!!!!
Also, if it’s a plantation tree I have no problem whatsoever with them chopping it down. In fact, it represents a good amount of stored Co2.
“Greenie” sometimes means cheap, simple technologies are better than higher order more complex solutions, even if you have to sometimes replace them after a catastrophic fires.
How long are these poles supposed to last? The really interesting thing is whether or not part of us subconsciously thinks we need concrete there because the fires are going to race through there again in the next 10 years. If that’s the case, should humans even be living there? Where there’s an electricity pole to replace chances are it’s not far from having a whole bunch of homes to replace as well.
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