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Nile v. Moyes

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/nile-calls-on-the-power-of-prayer-to-remove-a-political-thorn-in-his-side/2009/02/03/1233423223158.html

As a “political tragic” I was intrigued by this story linked on “the other place” - what’s going on NSW-locals?  Gordon Moyes preached at our UWA Campus Mission in the late 1980s and he impressed me as a decent and honourable Christian minister?  Has Fred lost it?

 

Sadly Fred “lost it” many years ago. It’s sadder still that well meaning Christians vote him into office.

An older couple in our congregation often give me a copy of Fred’s newsletter and I’m invariably disturbed by it’s content. Based on what I’ve read, Rev Moyes’ comments seem justified.

[ Edited: 04 February 2009 10:00 PM by Angus Johnson]
 

There’s a bitter power struggle going on, with some in the NSW CDP finally becoming a little concerned about the xenophobic, fear-based drivel coming from Nile’s office (eg A5 flyer (pdf)). And it seems to be directly from Nile - I recall a SMH article around state elections a while back suggesting Nile was making the decisions with little if any consultation with others in the party.

I posted a link to the story earlier today mostly for comedy value. Some of the quotes are hilarious. I’m not sure what the CDP’s agenda is in the other states, but in NSW they seem to exist solely to oppose the Greens. The Greens are the devil and must be opposed at every turn. That’s why, from the comments in the SMH, there appears to be no love lost between the two, if the SMH is anything to go by:

In his monthly journal, Family World News, Mr Nile accuses the man he recruited to his Christian Democratic Party of disloyalty and “frequent support” for the Greens.

As far as the NSW CDP goes, that’s being accused of collaborating with the enemy.

Moyes: “On environmental issues, climate change and social justice, the Greens are far more Christian than climate sceptics and those who back the exploiters of the poor and homeless.”

And that’s a slap in the face right back. Suggesting the devil incarnate and your number one enemy - the Greens - are ‘far more Christian’ than anyone, particularly whoever the CDP has been supporting (I guess), is about as great an insult as you could fire back.

Nile was doing some wacky reverse-psychology stuff recently, as covered here: “Conservative MP Fred Nile says he wants topless bathing banned in NSW to protect Sydney’s Muslim and Asian communities.”

Which is kind of like the Nazi’s coming out and saying they want pork banned to protect the Jews, if I can invoke Godwin’s law ;)

Amusing, if not particularly edifying saga. Strange stuff!

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Fred never “had it” to lose it.

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... the devil incarnate ...

Off topic! That’s an interesting collocation. (seeing as, as far as I know, the devil is spirit.) I googled and it turns out the lexeme comes from ... Shakespeare : ‘Titus Andronicus’ and ‘Henry V’ (see eg this link).

Okay .. now back to the topic ...

[ Edited: 04 February 2009 11:02 PM by Derek Hazell]
 

Never have I had to meet Fred Nile in person.  But heard from Gordon Moyes a few years back at a Kairos function and Gordon seemed like a top bloke then.

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Some interesting viewpoints in today’s SMH letters column :

  Nile’s actions speak louder than words or prayer 

Whenever a bill is before Parliament, Fred Nile is the first to knock on the door of the proposer to see what concessions he can get by voting for it (“Nile calls on the power of prayer to remove a political thorn in his side”, February 4). Take the bill that will allow the V8 Supercar Race at Olympic Park. Gordon Moyes voted against it, Mr Nile voted for it after gaining concessions regarding brothels.

The event will lead to more illegal street racing, is sponsored by alcohol companies, leading to irresponsible drinking, and is damaging to the environment - all things I would have thought a good Christian would have voted against. It is Mr Nile who should go, not Dr Moyes.

Tracey Nelson Concord West

Judging by the efficacy of the prayers of Fred Nile and his followers for rain on the Mardi Gras parade, Gordon Moyes has little to worry about.

John Truman Chatswood

The Muslims get Sheik Hilaly and the Christians get Fred Nile. Leaving no doubt that God is an equal opportunity employer.

Brian Haisman Winmalee

 

Gordon has always been far more compassionate to the next generation and the poor than Fred. I think Fred still dismisses the scientific consensus on climate change? Recently Gordon’s web-newsletter (which I receive) had an article about the dangers of turning food into fuel for biofuel production, and how that drove up the world food prices last year.

I’ll never forget our briefing to the Cross-Chambers in July 2005. After explaining peak oil, showing all the graphs, running through why none of the alternatives would scale up to do the same job as oil, etc, Fred suddenly and bombastically interrupted, “That’s why we’ve got to build nuclear power plants! I’ve been saying that for decades!!!!”

Thanks Fred. I can’t put one of those in my car.

 
Dave Lankshear - 05 February 2009 03:54 PM

“That’s why we’ve got to build nuclear power plants! I’ve been saying that for decades!!!!”

Thanks Fred. I can’t put one of those in my car.

Then what’s under the hood of those American Ford Fusion cars. ?

I thought it was going to be powered by nuclear fusion. More false advertising !

ps I vote Gordon a big “1”  -  and Fred a “big zero” ;)

 

“1.21 Gigawatts”!
“1.21 Gigawatts”!???
“ooooohhhhhh” (faints)

1955_delorean_c.jpg

 

Now with colour images ? Just how mighty is this mighty site !!!

Well done Luke for enabling this quantum leap in visual communications.

 

Kev,
images are standard protocol on most forums. Luke is WONDERFUL for setting up this website, and I’m just beginning to get a glimpse of how talented a web designer he really is integrating this website’s blog, frontpage, and forum portal.

But images on forums? They’re so 2000. Sydney Anglican’s just had a very strange perspective on limiting forum discussions, and now they’re getting even stricter.

Back on topic…...
Just in from today’s CVIP (Christian Voice in Politics, Gordon Moyes’ e-letter).

On the CDP…Gordon, Sorry you’re caught up in a bit of a media storm. At least you look dignified. New South Wales Political Leader (name withheld).
Dear Gordon, I support your stand as expressed by the Sydney Morning Herald today regarding Rev Fred Nile praying for your removal from Parliament. I have always understood Christians are not to pray evil on another Christian brother.  I ceased to Vote for Fred when he voted for the last amendments for the State Planning Laws. As a committed Christian, I have a concern for social justice, which has brought me into our local residents association and over 15 years of hard work defending our community from developers and their corrupt practices. I lost faith in the Christian Democrats when Fred spoke in the Legislative Council and could see nothing wrong with the Sartor planning rules.  Many of my friends have also stopped voting for him for the same reason.  I teach scripture in three local public schools and come in contact with people of many creeds and social backgrounds and it is with love we change things. I have been praying and watching the political crisis in Zimbabwe. Would Fred support Mr. Mugabe as he was elected by the people? We vote for people who will represent our needs and opinions in Parliament.  Will continue to pray for you.  Best wishes, Brian S.

Dear Rev Moyes, As a Christian I have long been embarrassed by Fred Nile’s stance on so many things, and I am delighted to hear you have been speaking up from within the party. I myself doubt the efficacy of a ‘Christian political party’, and know that Australia never was a “Christian country”, but the Lord works more as yeast in the dough. However, if you can do anything to change the outdated, tightly-controlled, unChristian nature of the CDP may God be with you! I support you all the way, and I’m sure so do many who hate to see the Lord so misrepresented to Sydney. Best wishes, Lynette.

Gordon, Like many leaders and Christians in NSW I am deeply aware of the drama you are involved in within the CDP. I want to write to you to offer my full support in your stand against Fred Nile. Gordon I think the time has come when you need to form a wide support group of Christian leaders to express to Fred Nile that he has done a great job but it is time to move ahead. I know that is unlikely to happen but a wide group of supporters might help. I for one would be willing to lend my support and believe there would be many others. If you had the time and were interested I would love to chat. Those two seats in the upper house are way too important to lose and somehow Mr Nile’s despotic reign within the CDP should be bought to an end. I know this must be a very tough time for you personally and I offer my best wishes and support and prayers at this time. Regards, Richard.
Letters to the SMH Editor “Nile’s actions speak louder than words or prayer”...Whenever a bill is before Parliament, Fred Nile is the first to knock on the door of the proposer to see what concessions he can get by voting for it (“Nile calls on the power of prayer to remove a political thorn in his side”, February 4).  Take the bill that will allow the V8 Supercar Race at Olympic Park.  Gordon Moyes voted against it, Mr Nile voted for it after gaining concessions regarding brothels.  The event will lead to more illegal street racing, is sponsored by alcohol companies, leading to irresponsible drinking, and is damaging to the environment - all things I would have thought a good Christian would have voted against.  It is Mr Nile who should go, not Dr Moyes.  Tracey.

Judging by the efficacy of the prayers of Fred Nile and his followers for rain on the Mardi Gras parade, Gordon Moyes has little to worry about. John

The Muslims get Sheik Hilaly and the Christians get Fred Nile.  Leaving no doubt that God is an equal opportunity employer.  Brian H.

Subscribe here.
http://gordonmoyes.com/lists/?p=subscribe


Oh, and this is another reason I reckon Gordon rocks! He published a piece on Biofuels, and then he published the following letter from my peak oil engineering mate Matt Mushalik. Go Gordon!

On Biofuels…Hi Gordon, c/c Sharon Armstrong (NSW Department of Lands), Re: Your recent email circular on bio fuels. When I met Minister Tony Kelly at the ethanol 2008 conferencewww.ethanol2008.com in April 2008, where I did a slide show on peak oil and global warming:http://www.ethanol2008.com/files/docs/GS-W120 Matt MUSHALIK.pdf I advised him NOT to waste bio fuels on the urban motorist (a bottomless pit) but to use these precious fuels for and in the agricultural sector itself, with the objective to make food production as much oil independent as possible. This can be done by installing E85 and bio diesel bowsers in agricultural areas which are likely to survive global warming for at least “some time”. Thanking you for your attention, Matt Mushalik (MIEAust, CPEng) Civil Engineer, Town & Regional Planner, Peak Oil Adviser.

[ Edited: 06 February 2009 06:28 AM by Dave Lankshear]
 

Not wanting to detract from all the love shown to Gordon. Is there anything critical of the bloke?  Obviously once upon a time he and Fred were quite close. What has changed? Is Fred the only one who has shifted or has Gordon shifted his views on any of the issues?  Can someone shed any light on that?  He obviously has good views on energy and the environment as well as a more compassionate view on immigration;  but has Gordon shifted on abortion or gay marriage or any other issues?

 
Dave Lankshear - 05 February 2009 03:54 PM

Thanks Fred. I can’t put one of those in my car.

But Dave, surely you drive an oversize hummer?  You could fit a small nuclear power plant in one of those! Shame on you for not thinking outside the square!

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Michael Deal - 06 February 2009 10:09 AM

Not wanting to detract from all the love shown to Gordon. Is there anything critical of the bloke?  Obviously once upon a time he and Fred were quite close.  What has changed?  Is Fred the only one who has shifted or has Gordon shifted his views on any of the issues?  Can someone shed any light on that?  He obviously has good views on energy and the environment as well as a more compassionate view on immigration;  but has Gordon shifted on abortion or gay marriage or any other issues?

From what I gathered last time I heard from Moyes (late 2006 at a Kairos event), they seemed pretty close back then.  They always voted together on an issue with one exception.  That was a motion to censure a person in state authority who was being charged with corruption.  Moyes voted to censure and Nile voted not to after ‘all the positive favours that person gave to Christianity in the past’ (my words).

Since then they’ve obviously had a lot of differences.

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Gordon has been expelled.
http://www.gordonmoyes.com/2009/04/20/expelled-for-trying-to-be-more-christian/

From Gordon’s latest letter…

It is my opinion that The Christian Democratic Party, founded and directed by Rev Fred Nile, is taking on the characteristics of groupies following a cultic leader.

Characteristics of a political religious cult include:

1. A religious political cult claims to be in conformity with Biblical truth, yet deviates from it.
Cults adhere to doctrines which are contrary to orthodox Christianity and which yet claim the distinction of either tracing their origin to orthodox sources or of being in essential harmony with those sources.

Fred’s self declared macro policies of ‘Anti Muslim and Anti Gay’ are not supported by any major Christian denomination. In fact all mainstream Christian church bodies and councils, including the conservative NSW Council of Churches and the Baptist Union of Australia, believe the policies not to be Christian.

and finishes…

I will remain a Christian Democrat affiliated with other such parties in more than twenty countries around the world. I will not belong to the extremist right wing faction, called ‘The Fred Nile Group’. The Christian Democratic Party, even at elections, is now referred to as ‘The Fred Nile Group’ no longer a Party, but simply an extremist faction.
I will stay in Parliament until the end of my term. Another political Party is considering me as their NSW political leader. I would have state wide support if I agree to lead them into the next election when they propose having candidates in every electorate. They have been successful in attracting large financial support. As well as that, I have been promised a major party’s preferences ahead of the CDP.

Rev Fred Nile carefully composed the Constitution of the Christian Democratic Party that includes the fact that Rev Fred Nile remains President for life or until he recommends his own replacement. As President, and Chairman of every committee, he controls the agenda. In no way can this be described as democratic.

Christian churches and members should be warned what the changes made within the Party mean. It is no longer Christian (as it has been rejected by every Christian denomination as holding views that are not considered Christian); no longer Democratic as it is obviously a dictatorship, and no longer a Party, but rather groupies following a cultic leader.

 

Wow! That’s really sad. I hope his letter gets wide distribution and Nile loses whatever legitimacy he has been clinging to.

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Fred may be “clinging onto some sort of legitimacy” - but he hasn’t had any credibility with lots of folk for many years !

 

Also interesting in the letter was this…

6. A religious political cult leader is mostly far-right in his ideology.
The CDP hates more than anything the political success of the Greens. They are described as atheists and communists. These views have hardened since the takeover of the CDP at the 2008 national convention, by a group of former Liberal Party right wing extremists, some of whom were expelled by the Liberals. Extremist views are regarded as normal and the socially disadvantaged seem comforted by these views.

 

Another political Party is considering me as their NSW political leader.

I’m sure that party will be Family First…

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I’m still not sure what category he’s hinting at with :

and the socially disadvantaged seem comforted by these views.

Who is he referring to ?

 

The poor and vulnerable that are easily recruited into following ‘cult-like’ leaders?

I’ll just copy and paste in the whole letter. Grab a coffee, sit back and see how deep the rabbit hole goes. If even half of what Gordon writes here is true, this party is just plain psychotic… like something from the Simpsons, but on LSD or Speed!

(Sorry about the weird way quotation marks come up as �)

Dear CVIPCC Readers, This is a special edition of “A Christian Voice in Politics, in the Community and in the Church” to inform you on Dr Moyes’ presentation to CDP Management Committee, held on Saturday 18 April, relating to his expulsion from the Christian Democratic Party (The Fred Nile Group). We will have the normal edition of CVIPCC this Thursday 23 April. Sincerely, Rev the Hon. Dr Gordon Moyes AC MLC.
                                                                                  <return to top>
Editorial: Expelled for trying to be more Christian and more democratic
On Saturday 18th April, at a meeting of the Christian Democratic Party State Council, my appeal against being expelled from the CDP was rejected. This was predictable based upon the numbers. A month earlier I read in the newspapers that the Leader For Life of the CDP Rev Fred Nile, had announced I had been expelled. He had never discussed this with me, before, then or since.

�I was expelled not because of any moral, sexual, financial or any other kind of unacceptable Christian behaviour but because I have some different views to the leader and believe the Management committee to be dysfunctional. Differing with our Leader is regarded as disloyalty and being critical of our Management Committee effectiveness is regarded as grounds for expulsion.�

Since 2002 I have sought to help the Party become more Christian in its attitudes to society and Australian citizens, and more democratic in the way it decides policy and direction. Those who have taken the Party in extremist and racist directions reject my approach entirely, and like many other ordinary members and paid staff in the last couple of years, I have been expelled.

My aim has always been to refresh, renew and reconnect the CDP with the Christian churches and faith. I have been deeply committed to seeing the CDP grow and thrive. I have stated publicly on many occasions that I will never accept any position of leadership within the party, even if offered, as I believe we need a new team of leaders at least twenty years younger than Fred. Fred has no need to feel threatened by my presence. I have offered to resign if Fred does also. He has refused to do so.

There were some funny things that happened prior to the start of the meeting and in the question time. I will mention these first. Fred had arranged for Elwyn Shepherd, who is older than Fred, to present the charges because that way none present would be able to question Fred on anything only Elwyn as the spokesperson for Fred.

The charges were two - I disagreed with Fred on some issues which is disloyalty and I had described the Management Committee for being dysfunctional which is a grounds for expulsion from the party. That is a ruling that has been used to get rid of many people including Ben Carpentier and John Phillips. I would affirm the accuracy of both charges.

Everybody was there at 2pm ready to start, but the Management Committee who was organising the afternoon had a few problems and asked us to wait. The people appointed to handle the security (checking everyone�s identity) had not completed their job, and the recording system (to make sure a full tape was obtained), and the people putting up the amplification equipment were either late or had forgotten.

So we waited for 40 minutes until the amplification man arrived and started to set up his equipment. The person who was to lead in fifteen minutes of prayer was apparently not prepared or else was overwhelmed by the occasion, and Elwyn was asked to read a Bible passage and pray. It was a dysfunctional start!

Elwyn surprised me with some additional charges which were added to later and also from Kiah, a volunteer who works in Fred�s office. She charged me with being a Freemason. When I announced I was not and had never been a freemason, Kiah said, “Well I don’t believe you, you are!”

I was charged with being a member of the Theosophical Society (because I broadcast for many years on 2GB Macquarie Broadcasting station. Later I was elected a Board member and later still Chairman of the station). In 1935 the Theosophical Society owned the licence. They sold the licence in about 1937 to the FAIRFAX media family, owners of the Sydney Morning Herald, and they subsequently sold shares to a number of companies in 1988 and later still to John Singleton Advertising, Wesley Mission and Harold Mitchell Advertising Agency. When I replied I did not know a single member of the Theosophical Society, I had never attended any meeting with such people or had ever been in their offices or even bookshop, I was not believed by some who felt I was there incognito!

Elwyn then charged me with divination, because when I returned from USA last year I had predicted Barrack Obama would win the Presidency! Fred was not charged with divination, because he had during my talk injected “I bet you anything you like that the next President of the United States will be John McCain”. Apparently if you are right you can be charged with divination, but if you fail to predict the winner you are not divining.

Then finally, Elwyn charged me with witchcraft. For the life of me I cannot think what that was for. Did I once quote Macbeth?

Elwyn then read quotes from my questions of CDP policies and press releases where I called for CDP to be more Christian and more democratic. He later said I had gone to the Clerk of Parliament to complain about my staff�s working areas and that when asked my staff both agreed there was nothing wrong and they had no problems. In fact it was my staff, who unknown to me went to the Clerk. But Elwyn was wrong on many facts. 

Then it was my turn and here is the transcript of my address:
“Why party expulsions end with the party’s defeat, speech at the CDP Management Committee held on Saturday 20 April 2009.
“An appeal after expulsion of a member who was never informed of the expulsion being discussed, never invited to speak in his own defence, and who was never counselled concerning the event by his leader, does not negate the original denial of natural justice nor the way it was communicated to me. For Rev Fred Nile announced in a newspaper report I had been expelled from the party by the management Committee is an example of appalling manners and declining personal relationships.

My aim has always been to refresh, renew and reconnect the CDP with the Christian churches. I have been deeply committed to seeing the CDP grow and thrive. I have stated publicly on many occasions that I will never accept any position of leadership within the party, even if offered, as I believe we need a new team of leaders at least twenty years younger than Fred. Fred has no need to feel threatened by my presence. I have offered to resign if Fred does also. He has refused to do so.

The problems and solutions I have sought to be discussed privately in the spirit of Matthew 18, but to no avail. So I took the issue to the membership and Christian supporters as all other CDP avenues were closed to me. I was not allowed to have policy and procedural matters placed on the agenda for the Management Committee, the State Council, raised in the CDP email blog, or raised in the printed Family World News.
Fred will not personally discuss matters involving himself. He has never given a Biblical explanation for his policies despite many requests. Further, on twenty-one occasions this year Fred has defamed me in press releases, emails, and FWN magazine and not once have I answered him publicly until     this week. This continued attack on me has diminished his standing in the sight of many.

I requested this opportunity to speak to the State Council planning to outline my concerns that had never been presented to you. I hereby outline here that Party expulsions are self defeating. In expelling me in such circumstances, the Party ultimately hurts itself and guarantees the end of Parliamentary representation of the CDP for ever. Here are the reasons:

1. Expelling a fellow Christian Parliamentarian will mean the CDP will be rejected by Christian Churches. 
I was expelled not because of any moral, sexual, financial or any other kind of unacceptable Christian behaviour but because I have some different views to the leader and believe the Management committee to be dysfunctional.

Fred Nile already rejects the views of all Church Councils, denominational leaders of all major denominations if they do not fit in with his own extremist fundamentalism. This means our Party and leadership are not seen by many as Christian.
The public in general see us as moralists but not Christian. There are many criticisms, even by Christian Parliamentarians, that the CDP is not Christian and does not operate in our public statements as a party of God�s grace.

Church leaders of all denominations will not support the extremist faction the Fred Nile Group because they are perceived as being far from Christian in policies and attitudes. The CDP is not seen as promoting the whole Gospel of God, demonstrating a commitment to justice, to the poor the oppressed, the refugee, the migrant and those who are of different religions and cultures.

It is important that a Party which entitles itself as �Christian� is truly representative of Christian viewpoints, even if personally we may prefer other theological perspectives. We must be inclusive of Christian views and give a Biblical reason for any differing beliefs and actions which to this date has not been done.

2. Expelling a fellow Christian Parliamentarian because he wants to raise other viewpoints to is obviously a denial of our claim to be democratic.
I have argued that all significant policies should be discussed and agreed upon by members, branches, and state council to be representative of the CDP and not announced on the run by a leader in press releases. Every political Party in Australia agrees with me on that issue.

The CDP is not seen as being democratic. Our members know their views are not heard. They know it is useless for branches to make policy suggestions. Even when they are forced to be discussed, their ideas are shunted off to some ad hoc committee. They are then never discussed at State Council or even Management Committee.
I cannot remember once in the last six years Fred accepting any grass root suggestion. We are a dictatorship. As Fred said at the last Christmas Party �I make the policy.� Is this not supreme arrogance?

The first time our members or braches hear about new policies is when they     read some journalists� comments on some press release that has been issued by Fred. To expel anyone for disagreeing with that ultimately means our Party�s end. Normal people leave such an organisation. 

3. Expelling a fellow Christian Parliamentarian because he dissents is to deny fundamental human rights.
People will judge this Christian Democratic Party as hypocritical and anti-Christian, with a leadership more akin to Mr Robert Mugabe than any other leader. At the heart of democracy is the belief that the views of citizens or members of the community will be heard. To silence all dissent is a total denial of being democratic. It is tyranny at its worst.

To expel a fellow member for no moral or legal wrong is to defame their character and opens the organisation to legal action, particularly if the State Council is not representative of branches as is required by our Constitution, and includes people who have no constitutional right to vote.

4. Expelling a fellow Christian Parliamentarian because he challenges the wisdom of the leader is to deny a fundamental aspect of leadership.   

All leaders must be willing to be questioned and challenged over their leadership, and to have the effectiveness of their leadership reviewed. It is not acceptable in the twenty-first century for a leader to declare himself President for Life and to expel those who disagree as has happened recently with staff, members of the Management Committee and State Council. We do not believe in the infallibility of Fred.

That is why Fred has never been able to work with any Parliamentary colleague including Marie Bignold MLC, John Bradford and myself. Maybe Fred has an over-inflated opinion of his own self-importance and intellect.

Fred has a problem facing anyone who disagrees with him. I have noticed over the years that Fred cannot look any man in the eye whom he regards as a strong person. He attacks them by getting someone else to do it in an article or letter. It is the same with policy matters and Parliamentary decisions.

Fred talks about being leader more than any other politician I know yet he shows no leadership in Parliament, never suggests how we should vote, never discusses one item we should speak upon, and in the last six years has never approached me once on how I feel about an issue, or for advice on how we should vote. He cannot cope with criticism or being asked for an     explanation for his decision. Any questioning is called �disloyalty� deserving of expulsion. Fear of disloyalty is a paranoia.

5. Expelling a fellow Christian Parliamentarian means the CDP loses half of its parliamentary seats because the leader cannot face being questioned.
Fred has never had regular appointments with myself on plans and issues, never discusses how he intendeds to vote or what he intends to say on any Bill, nor has he ever suggested we pray about issues facing us and has never called for a time of reading the scriptures and prayer. He carries his old Bible in meetings, but I have never seen him refer to it in our discussions, and I have never seen it used for preparing Bible studies and sermons at the office.

He has meetings on a secret basis with members of the Government.  But I am not informed of deals on legislation that he has made with the Government.  He puts out a dozen press releases every day, but I have never been informed of their nature nor given copies but they are statements in our name and I am often called to see if others agree with them. See my editorial: “How Fred Nile does deals”. 

6. Expelling a fellow Christian Parliamentarian will lead to the end of the CDP as a Political Party.
Whatever the vote today, I will fulfill my term over of the next two years. I can continue in Parliament as a Christian Democrat associated with the CDP�s in twenty other countries but not with the extremist faction, “The Fred Nile Group”.

Or I may accept an Invitation from Family First, if it is extended, to be their man in the NSW Parliament for the next two years. I would then lead their ticket in the next election.

With those who know me supporting me, Family First votes (they have significant financial resources, and will contest every electorate next election) plus the negative image of Fred, there is no hope that CDP will win a seat regardless of whoever is on the ticket.

Ross Clifford whom Fred has announced should replace me, told me, that if I resign, he would accept my seat, but he would never contest an election! Ross has been named as our next candidate. Has Ross agreed to that? Has     Ross agreed as the constitution requires that every candidate agrees on every policy with the CDP President. Do the Morling College staff, Morling College Board and the Baptist Union of Australia know that?

The Liberals have told me they will never be doubled crossed by Fred again, and they want me to stand and will give me the Liberal preferences. In the new parliament, probably the Liberals will be one short of an absolute majority. They will not ask a Green to support them, nor the two Shooters who have opposed them, nor Fred who sold out to Labor. So they want me to stand, to win, and then to join with them as the majority in the Legislative Council. 

Family First, I have been told, have received large funding from one of the Liberal Party�s main donors. Currently they have one member in the West Australian Parliament, two members in the South Australian Parliament, and one Senator in the Federal Parliament. They could do with a presence of another member in the NSW Parliament. With five Parliamentarians already in place, they believe they can be a significant force in the future. I have been checking out Family First values and stances and I am impressed with their Christian standards.

But I have told them I will not speak officially to their Federal Executive, unless I am expelled from the CDP. I will never resign as I have done nothing that is wrong except disagree with some of the President for Life�s opinions and declare the Management Committee dysfunctional. I have seen too many members of the Party, and of the Management Committee bullied into resigning and quietly go away.
I will not resign, but if expelled I will feel free from any sense of obligation to the CDP. I could then be willing to be the Member for the Family First in the Legislative Council and then, if I get elected as a Family First candidate at the next election, I would stay only about two years, and then hand over to a younger FF candidate ensuring the seat will remain in the Family First Party.
I will never come back to the CDP. There is no requirement that any sitting member should hand back the seat to the original Party if that member decided to change parties. Fred has brought this upon himself. He may now be the only CDP member left in any Parliament in the few weeks. At the next election, the CDP cannot beat Family First and by the following election, I am sure Fred will see the writing on the wall and will not even stand.
With the falling CDP membership and a financial crisis in the CDP, with an uncontrollably ambitious Michael Darby wanting his seat, Fred has already launched a life-boat for himself called “Australia A Christian Nation Association” into which he will jump. Anyone else standing for CDP will not win.

So the days of the Party will be over. There have been too many sackings, too many people hurt and cast aside for me to feel sorry. One day, the public at large will read of Fred�s deals and treatment of supporters and staff in the daily press and that will be the end of his reputation, which in the eyes of many currently shares the same level as Marcus Einfeld. We simply await an investigative reporter to sense a big story waiting. You will not want to be known as a Fred Nile supporter on that day.

So it is back to 1981. In spite of hundreds of thousands of new Christians in this State and over a million dollars of advertising (over the course of 28 years), Fred�s performance in Parliament has been unable to increase the CDP numbers in Parliament, and his organisational skills has resulted in the Party being weaker now than at any other time in history.

The Christian Democratic Party was meant to fulfill our role in such a way to bring glory to God and continue to serve the work of Jesus Christ. By the actions of our Leader for Life, that role is today is damaged.

Through all of this I have not changed. I am present when Parliament is sitting, I give well researched and argued speeches on bills, ask ministers questions designed to help people get justice, record significant events in adjournment speeches, and take my place on Inquiries currently into the Governance of Universities and Bullying of Children and Young People. I lead the Prayer fellowship, and organise the State Prayer luncheon for all Parliamentarians and church leaders. I have fellowship with members of all parties, and I eat with colleagues from every party.

Every week I meet with lobby groups wanting the law changed, and have individuals in my office or I visit them in their homes who are suffering some injustice. I have fully participated in three elections, travelling over five thousand kilometres to country places throughout New South Wales, addressed hundreds of meetings and spoken face to face with over 3,500 people encouraging support to elect CDP local candidates, elect Rev Fred Nile to the Senate, elect Fred Nile to the Legislative Council, elect Superintendent Garry Raymond to the Upper House and Cr Paul Green to the Senate � all at my own expense.

I speak with groups of University and senior High School students on the role of a Christian in Parliament, I am constantly preaching in churches all over the State of all denominations and spend much time helping charities in fundraising by chairing functions, supporting their fundraisers and by selling tickets. Groups I have worked with this past twelve months have raised over $600,000. I do everything I have ever been asked to do as a Parliamentarian.

To expel me, not because of any moral, sexual, financial or any other kind of unacceptable Christian behaviour but because I have some different views to the leader and believe the Management committee to be dysfunctional, is to ensure that party expulsions will end with the party�s defeat.”
Then it was twenty minutes when some questions were asked, and some more along the lines above.  Then the vote - 26 agreed I should be expelled (including the 14 Management Committee) and 8 said I should not and another 5 said the whole thing was stupid and refrained from voting in protest. I thanked those who spoke up in support, although three who spoke     in favour of me were jeered. Some later resigned from the CDP.  We all had a cup of tea and went home.

Beverley and I felt relieved it was over, visited our daughter and family, and went out to a dinner with a dozen or more Wesley friends.  I will remain as an independent Christian Democrat in Parliament or until other approaches have been clarified.

There is a much deeper issue involved than just my personal situation. It has to do with how a religious political party can become a cult.

Alarm bells started ringing loudly when all CDP members were strongly urged to attend every Monday night, the Fred Nile School of Politics. They were to be instructed in holding the Fred Nile world view. This was not something that local churches do, and attending local church Bible studies and prayer meetings were not advocated. But CDP members needed to get involved in the Fred Nile School of Politics. This certainly smells like a cult.
Rev The Hon. Dr Gordon Moyes, A.C., M.L.C. Email Gordon
                                                                                  <return to top>
Crossbench Comment: The cult of Fred Nile
It is my opinion that The Christian Democratic Party, founded and directed by Rev Fred Nile, is taking on the characteristics of groupies following a cultic leader.

Characteristics of a political religious cult include:

1. A religious political cult claims to be in conformity with Biblical truth, yet deviates from it.
Cults adhere to doctrines which are contrary to orthodox Christianity and which yet claim the distinction of either tracing their origin to orthodox sources or of being in essential harmony with those sources.

Fred�s self declared macro policies of �Anti Muslim and Anti Gay� are not supported by any major Christian denomination. In fact all mainstream Christian church bodies and councils, including the conservative NSW Council of Churches and the Baptist Union of Australia, believe the policies not to be Christian.

Fred has long decried all the mainstream denominations because he belongs     to a narrow extremist fundamentalist group, whose beliefs are not accepted by Biblical scholars and orthodox Christian theologians. But in recent days, he has responded to groups in society with whom he disagrees in a way that encourages social disintegration by attracting those people who are racist and antagonist to others to support him.

2. A religious political cult leader indoctrinates members with unorthodox or extremist views, practices or beliefs attracting around himself devoted attachment and encouraging that by constant reaffirming of his own leadership.

This makes for a personality cult. Most cults of personality have their origins in the excessive adulation even to claims of miracles performed or endorsed by the leadership.

Fred in his speeches to the party faithful frequently refers to the fact that he is God�s chosen, and that his election to Parliament was a miracle on every occasion of his re-election. Read his biography and see how frequently his elections are described as miraculous. The word �miraculous� occurs dozens of times. This is a claim for divine favouritism.

Others might argue his election, even with declining numbers was due to other factors, such as over a million dollars spent from Party funds to ensure his elections, political deals to receive preferences, and sheer hard work recruiting people to man the polling booths and hand out �how to Vote� cards.

But not Fred. It was a miracle of God, which is then used to indicate to the faithful that he really is the chosen one of God, who has affirmed it by miracles. Gullible people are taken in by this constant repetition. Most thinking people realise the shallowness of this and leave.

3. A religious political cult leader gathers a group of followers, sect members, who enforce excessive control over other members.
A group with extreme or dangerous philosophical or political ideas ensures there is a maximum adherence to the group-think. As this progresses, every person with the capacity to distinguish between the legitimate and the cultish     leaves the party.

Not one single person promoted by the party in the last twenty-five years as a lead candidate for Upper House or Senate elections, (save Mrs. Nile) is still involved in his party. There is a suppression by the refusal to allow open discussion and dissent of the ability of people to reason, think critically, and make choices in their own best interest. So the most competent of members leave. Thus there is no threat to Fred�s leadership.

A cult leader ensures no discussion of policy or his voting record is allowed. I have tabled requests for matters facing Parliament to be discussed by CDP Management Committee and State Council , but they are always ruled out of order by the Chairman, who is Fred. Confidential emails to Management Committee members requesting issues be discussed, are publicly rejected by Fred who then accuses me of disloyalty for questioning his decisions. He prints his replies, but not my questions, which were only ever shared by me with Management Committee members. Hence he seeks to control the discussion.

A cult leader puts people in physically or emotionally distressing situations about issues. The references to those who leave as being unfaithful or heretical places pressure on those who remain to conform. I name later a dozen who have left recently.

4. A religious political cult leader reduces the problems of members to one simple explanation, which is repeatedly emphasised.
For example, if anyone lists the six worst social problems facing Australia, they will be shown how all of them lead back to the fact that the Government has allowed Islamic immigration, and those Muslims have changed the pristine Christian society we used to have. The fact that this never existed in the European history of our country does not matter. Simple answers to complex problems are constantly repeated like a mantra until they are believed uncritically.

5. A religious political cult leader attracts numbers of socially disadvantaged people, people with poor education and those lacking social skills.
They receive unconditional love, acceptance, and attention from a charismatic leader. This impresses them greatly. They get a new identity based on the group.

They are subject to entrapment (told to avoid the opinions of friends, relatives, and the mainstream culture), and told to listen to the Leader instead. Their access to information is severely controlled. Full reports and financial statements, differing views of policies are never given or sent to all members but limited to the inner group to limit questions being asked.

One has only to compare the names of people who used to attend CDP State Council with those who do today to realise that many of the competent,    able Christian laymen and women, including almost all of the business and professional people no longer attend State Council meetings or Branch meetings. The CDP now has a higher percentage of socially disadvantaged people and people with poor education than ever before.

The remaining members are given additional revelation on a similar or higher level than the Bible. Fred’s use of �God told me�� is a claim for authority that dare not be challenged. Fred�s often repeated statement �God has not told me to resign� is not only a state about his future, but about his direct line of revelation. Inner circle followers have stated that to challenge Fred�s views on political matters is to challenge God Himself and to seek discussion on matters is to defy Fred�s leadership that is contrary to scripture that declares we should obey the Government. There is a sliding focus from �the Government� to �our leader� and the terms are used interchangeably.

A cult leader�s practise is to seek endorsement from others of like mind. The Christian Democratic Party promotes and the endorses the widely criticised self-styled prophet Danny Nalliah who recently described Victoria�s bush fires on the Victorian Government�s decision to liberalise     abortion laws.

Such a cult holds beliefs and/or practices that are not held by mainstream Christianity. Social ills are commonly blamed on lesbians and same sex couples or Muslims, despite a total lack of evidence for these claims. Gathering together such a support group is exactly the reason for Fred�s starting �Australia a Christian Nation Association�, an attack group on Islamic Australians.

6. A religious political cult leader is mostly far-right in his ideology.
The CDP hates more than anything the political success of the Greens. They are described as atheists and communists. These views have hardened since the takeover of the CDP at the 2008 national convention, by a group of former Liberal Party right wing extremists, some of whom were expelled by the Liberals. Extremist views are regarded as normal and the socially disadvantaged seem comforted by these views.

7. A religious political cult leader makes it difficult for dissatisfied people to leave a cult.
There are two usual methods of exiting: most attend a branch or State Council meeting a few times and then just silently never return (these are �walkaways�). The CDP membership has been in significant decline for years resulting in the current financial crisis. But others are expelled (these are �castaways�).

This is done simply by a letter from Fred. For example, John Phillips, a full time volunteer in our CDP Office and an elected member of the Management Committee was removed by Nile for disloyalty for standing up for three office staff that made harassment charges against former Liberal Michael Darby. They had all indicated they would resign if Darby was given access to their Office. Nile dismissed the harassment charge and spoke to each staff member indicating they should drop the charge. All three have since left the employment of the CDP.

Phillips was rejected because he supported a proper investigation of the harassment charges. In Management Committee meetings Phillips was never allowed to say anything as the chairman, Fred, said he did not recognize John. John was then issued with a letter from Fred, asking him to leave the CDP. He had done no wrong except for questioning lack of a proper investigation into staff charges of harassment.

Fred has ceased to issue such letters personally. He has had to pay out so many tens of thousands of dollars over the years to people threatening legal action so now he gets some elderly pensioner to write the letter and say it is on behalf of a dozen faceless non-entities that comprise the Management Committee. He hopes no one will sue such people. Fred is at the meeting and authorizes such steps to be taken, but he is never mentioned as being involved.

In spite of the CDP supposedly being a Christian organisation, there is constant talk of threats, harassment, lawsuits and attacks against critics. This results in people being silenced and quietly leaving. Not only does Fred not allow any criticism about himself but he does not allow any discussion about his views.

When people leave, it can be difficult for some members who may suffer psychological trauma. Paid staff who have walked away or been sacked in the past year include Phil Lamb as a full time State Director, Ben Carpentier (Office Manager - full-time), Peta Wilson (3 days per week admin), Nancy Piggot (1 day per week bookkeeping) Andrew Amos (IT on contract), Toby Anderson (Microsoft Access programmer) on contract, Jeanette Nolan (full-time Young CDP), Ken Gregory (assistant treasurer). Today none of those employees are left. It was only a matter of two months before the newly appointed State Manager/Director Wally Vanderpoll, left work on extended stress leave. Most left with bitterness and disillusionment toward the Leader and CDP.

Some former employees I have counselled faced the trauma of walking away. This is due to the fact that some were conditioned, as in every cult. They had originally a powerful religious conviction that they were doing God�s work; a love for the founder of the organisation until deep despair set in about him, an emotional investment built up by the number of times they had to defend the founder from attacks; a sudden realization that all of their time, money, and efforts donated to the group were a waste; and because for a long time they had stifled the conviction they should leave because they realized that some things were wrong.

Many people have asked me why I have not left the CDP. I stayed because I     hoped to change it from within. I presented the Management Committee with     a Refresh Agenda that would revitalise the party. The Chairman refused to put any of the matters on the Agenda for discussion.

A friend counselled me: �You cannot remain in the CDP vainly trying to renew it. It’s like standing on a sinking ship telling people to get off. Those that do have nowhere safe to go and those that stay will go down with it. It’s better to beckon from a life raft, than yell from the ship.�

I will remain a Christian Democrat affiliated with other such parties in more than twenty countries around the world. I will not belong to the extremist right wing faction, called �The Fred Nile Group�. The Christian Democratic Party, even at elections, is now referred to as �The Fred Nile Group� � no longer a Party, but simply an extremist faction.
I will stay in Parliament until the end of my term. Another political Party is considering me as their NSW political leader. I would have state wide support if I agree to lead them into the next election when they propose having candidates in every electorate. They have been successful in attracting large financial support. As well as that, I have been promised a major party�s preferences ahead of the CDP.

Rev Fred Nile carefully composed the Constitution of the Christian Democratic Party that includes the fact that Rev Fred Nile remains President for life or until he recommends his own replacement. As President, and Chairman of every committee, he controls the agenda. In no way can this be described as democratic.

Christian churches and members should be warned what the changes made     within the Party mean. It is no longer Christian (as it has been rejected by every Christian denomination as holding views that are not considered Christian); no longer Democratic as it is obviously a dictatorship, and no longer a Party, but rather groupies following a cultic leader.
Rev The Hon. Dr Gordon Moyes, A.C., M.L.C.
                                                     

[ Edited: 21 April 2009 10:04 AM by Dave Lankshear]
 

Oh I see now - “the socially disadvantaged” who “seem comforted by these views” are just wierdos.

Part of the problem is the unquestioning acceptance by some simple [ not a negative term ] and sincerely intentioned Christians who welcome anyone who uses the word Christian to describe themselves ( or their church, group or even political party ).  Thinking Christians realise how easily any plain unquestioning Christians can be duped - just look to Jonestown, Waco Texas or a 1,000 other cults masquerading as followers of the truth ( usually THEIRS is the one true way of course ) - or just turn on your television sets between 3am and 6am most mornings. ( Notice how the Televangelists always use the Jerry McGuire approach at the end of their ‘shows’ - “SHOW ME THE MONEY” they plead. )

There are indeed many sincere Christians ( usually oldies - and I know a few ) who are unquestioning members of Fred’s CDP. It’s time to give them photocopies of Gordon’s statements and let them re-evaluate their membership - and their need for spiritual discernment of leaders.

And I also wish to confess that - for some years now -  it has been ME who keeps throwing the CDP leaflets/propaganda into the RUBBISH bin whenever they appear on our church leaflets desk !

 
Kevin Goddard - 21 April 2009 10:40 AM

There are indeed many sincere Christians ( usually oldies - and I know a few ) who are unquestioning members of Fred’s CDP. It’s time to give them photocopies of Gordon’s statements and let them re-evaluate their membership - and their need for spiritual discernment of leaders.

As Han Solo said to Luke: “Where did you dig up that old fossil?

And I also wish to confess that - for some years now -  it has been ME who keeps throwing the CDP leaflets/propaganda into the RUBBISH bin whenever they appear on our church leaflets desk !

I think many Christians have been there and done that. My dad has handed out CDP stuff for years, and next time they phone up for help dad will make it clear in no uncertain terms that he wants nothing to do with the CDP in future.

 

From “The Diary” ( page 16 of today’s SMH ) :

An almighty altercation

Nick O’Malley and Emily Dunn       April 22, 2009

The NSW Upper House battle between the Reverend Fred Nile and his former Christian Democrat colleague, the the Reverend Gordon Moyes, has turned from bloody to bizarre with the revelation that Moyes “would accept an invitation” to join Family First were one to be extended. This after his expulsion from the Nile-lead party was upheld on appeal at a meeting on Saturday.

Moyes wrote in a newsletter that during the meeting he was accused of Freemasonry, divination (on the grounds that he predicted Barack Obama’s victory), witchcraft and membership of the Theosophical Society (this is the mob that built the amphitheatre at Balmoral Beach in order to welcome Christ when He walked through Sydney Heads.)

Nile yesterday denied such allegations were raised. He told The Diary he remembered some discussion of Freemasonry, but couldn’t recall any mention of divination or witchcraft. Nile said Moyes was expelled for ongoing criticism “of the party and of it’s leader, me”. He said tension had increased when Moyes returned from a trip to the US with suspiciously moderate views on Obama and abortion. Moyes declined to comment.

Family First’s federal chairman, Bob Day, confirmed he’d had an “informal” chat with Moyes last week. Late yesterday Nile also released a newsletter. It began: “I thank Almighty God for the unity and faithfulness of the delegates who attended our first ever special general council meeting to hear the right of appeal by the Rev Moyes.”

 

“I thank Almighty God for the unity and faithfulness of the delegates who attended our first ever special general council meeting to hear the right of appeal by the Rev Moyes.”

In other words, I thank the gullibility of my special selection of cronies that wants me to be “President for Life” of my own little cult, and enable my ongoing persecution of Muslims and Gays.

Fred Nile has little appreciation of the subtleties of running public policy in a democracy that caters for the masses, and personal convictions and how the 2 fit together. EG: As a Christian he of course does not approve of homosexuality. But the difference between him and most other churches is that he then wants to twist public policy into some kind of public condemnation of homosexuals, instead of just working privately to share Jesus love with whomever he might meet, whatever their background might be.

Where does one stop? Legislating church attendance? Legislating attendance must be at Nile’s own approved denomination? It can quickly become scary stuff once one heads down that road…

 
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