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Great point David B

Also we cannot deny the Spirit working in the life of another who loves Christ as their savior and Lord and yet believe different doctrine to you…as Paul says, many outworking’s…same God…same Spirit… if the fruit of the Holy Spirit is evident in their lives.

How different, Craig?

Hi David. I’m talking about doctrinal differences here. Between Cessationist’s and Charismatics…. Reformed and Arminian’s. Roman Catholics and Protestants… There are many Saved Roman Catholics, many saved Baptists, Anglicans, Pressies etc etc….and there are many who attend those churches who are not.

And perhaps there could even be a number of Mormons and Jw’s who are trapped in the system who are truly saved… I do say PERHAPS because no one can say with 100% certainty there are none….though we can say with certainty they do preach a false gospel.

I think you’re digging a hole here, Craig. You previously said that we cannot deny the Spirit working in the life of another who loves Christ as their savior and Lord and yet believe different doctrine to you.

Roman Catholics, Mormons, JWs and Charismatics teach quite a few things which are unscriptural. I don’t believe that alleged miracles or workings of the Holy Spirit should be accepted where the person’s teaching is screwy.

For example. I sat down at Koorong to look through some books and a woman collared me. It took about two minutes to realise that it was a setup and that she thought I was her personal captive audience. She told me of miracle after miracle that had happened to her. Seh told me that all the churches are wrong. She said she loves Jesus, but her emphasis was 100% miracle stories but there was no mention of the gospel in any shape or form.

The fact that the message she was giving was at odds with the Bible and lacked a lot of what is in the Bible made me conclude that she was teaching something suss, despite claiming to be a Christian who experiences great miracles.

Hi David…

Are you point blankly saying that there are no roman catholic’s who are saved…that every single roman catholic is going to hell?
What about the many Christian men in Islamic countries who love Jesus undercover but still attend the mosque. Are you point blankly going to say that they are going to hell?

The only Doctrine I believe that will be important when it comes to the time of Judgment will be…when we are asked “Who do you say I am?”

All the other stuff about church practice, baptism, gifts of the spirit, women roles in ministry etc etc will not be important.

I’m not saying that only people who are Baptists, Reformed, New Covenant Theologians, etc will be saved.

What I’m saying is that when someone says that some experience they have had is from God, and they already are teaching a number of things which are clearly unbiblical, then I’m not going to swallow what they are saying and accept that it was really God who levitated the chair… But I’m not saying that I know their heart and can say who is in and who is out.

Issues that you put in your last line are clearly secondary, but whether a person believes that salvation is by faith alone through grace alone, or that they contribute to their salvation through saying the rosary, etc is pretty important, I think.

Craig, read these words of Richard John Neuhaus, a Lutheran who converted to Roman Catholicism. This comes from my comments on my blog, upon learning that he had died [on 8th Jan]

Vale Richard John Neuhaus
I think Richard Neuhaus had a lot of good things to say. Of course I don’t agree with everything he said, but I think he was a person to look up to and I’m saddened by his death last week on 8th January.

This statement, published in his honour on his own blog, after his death, is very close to what Protestants believe, I think.

  When I come before the judgment throne, I will plead the promise of God in the shed blood of Jesus Christ. I will not plead any work that I have done, although I will thank God that he has enabled me to do some good. I will plead no merits other than the merits of Christ, knowing that the merits of Mary and the saints are all from him; and for their company, their example, and their prayers throughout my earthly life I will give everlasting thanks. I will not plead that I had faith, for sometimes I was unsure of my faith, and in any event that would be to turn faith into a meritorious work of my won. I will not plead that I held the correct understanding of “justification by faith alone,” although I will thank God that he led me to know ever more fully the great truth that much misunderstood formulation was intended to protect. Whatever little growth in holiness I have experienced, whatever strength I have received from the company of the saints, whatever understanding I have attained of God and his ways - these and all other gifts received I will bring gratefully to the throne. But in seeking entry to that heavenly kingdom, I will…look to Christ and Christ alone.

  Richard John Neuhaus. Death on a Friday Afternoon

You’d have to be churlish to say that he is not saying virtually the same thing as our Archbish and his bro. Assuming he really believed this, you’d have to expect to see him in God’s new heaven and earth one day.

However, this doesn’t mean that the RC doctrines that he must also have held to are not a matter of concern.