On the ‘State Elections’ forum today , Dave asked : “So what do you think motivated Hanson voters? A fear of Muslim immigration?”
### This is my response ( which I have transferred to this more appropriate forum ) :
Really don’t know. I never saw any Hanson electioneering pamphlets this election - so it’s hard to speculate what she was standing on nor what others are thinking. Indeed even we two don’t know what each is thinking ;)
I actually think that is can be misleading to use phrases such as “fear of Muslim immigration” and labelling some folk as “racist” because their views appear to be opposite to what the hearer interprets as having been said by the other. ( So many agendas seem to fit into so few words at times. )
I believe that many folk are alarmed at the MISUSE of Muslim immigration. What I am referring to is that current Australians { through all our families - in our ancestries -we all have migrated from other nations } dwell in a culture of ‘if you come to Australia, then you are welcome, but only if you want to ‘assimilate’ and become fellow Aussies alongside us’.
Where the PROBLEM lies is in the SNUBBING of our ‘welcome to join with us’ - by those who come here to bring their insulated enclaves ( with their imported restrictions and limitations on their adherents ) and set up their existence AGAINST the cultural context and general population to which they have come. Rather than join in and assimilate with Australians ( of all creeds and colours ) , some are insistent on SEPARATION ( a sort of cultural - and spiritual apartheid ) - and so they fail to encourage their womenfolk especially to learn English, join community groups, limit educational opportunities and just have their womenfolk stay away from all men - stay in the kitchen and produce more babies for Islam.
Certainly this is not true of all Muslims. Especially those who have been able to make great use of educational opportunities and GET INVOLVED and INTERACT with mainstream Australia. We all know of many examples of their contribution to our great country ( and it is ).
What is of great concern to many Aussies are the large numbers ( more prominent in Muslim migrants from certain countries ) who REFUSE - or who aren’t encouraged from within their own ranks - to SEEK to join in with other Australians - but instead, they circle the waggons and try to hold off the surrounding ‘enemy’ - which is over 98% of the population. Such ANTAGONISM towards those who have sought to welcome them, does not go down well in any neighbourhood.
Even the Star Trek crew would seek out aliens and say “we come in peace”. Yet this approach does not happen with certain Islamic elements who state ‘we’ve come to take you over - you evil disgusting Kafir people - change your ways, become one of us and we’ll let you live’.
Think that’s a bit extreme ? It’s not - some of us have done a lot of research - and we’ve read and heard it all. These troublemakers may not be the majority of all Muslim immigration - but they do exist, they do make such outrageous claims, they do hold extreme ideological positions - and they are dangerous. The ‘silent majority’ among Muslims do themselves no service by NOT adequately and loudly denouncing them.
Fear of Muslim immigration ? No
Concerned about the BAD ELEMENT among them ? Yes - and rightly so.
The Quran commands Muslims to fight all unbelievers:
Fight those who believe not in God, nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. S. 9:29
The above emphatically exhorts Muslims to conquer the following groups of people until they pay a sum of money (Jizya) as a sign of their subjection and humiliation:
• Atheists/Agnostics (those who believe not in God nor the Last Day).
• Jews and Christians (people of the Book).
• Everyone else, whether Hindus/ Magians, Buddhists etc., since these groups do not prohibit what Muhammad forbade nor believe in Islam, the so-called “religion of Truth”.
Please note that the passage does not limit the taking of Jizya from the Jews and Christians; it clearly says that the Jizya is to be extracted from all of the subjugated groups that are listed, i.e. those who do not believe in Allah and the last day, or forbid what Muhammad forbade etc.
This philosophy may explain why so many Muslims are not averse to tax avoidance, and social welfare fraud in Australia. Their religion seems to support that approach in the Qu’ran, by the above explanation. It also explains why Muslims do not become part of our society and remain distant, and unchangeable.
This just in from London-istan: Violent clashes outside U.S. Embassy after hundreds of UK Muslims stage mock funeral for ‘murdered’ Bin Laden
By (UK) DAILY MAIL REPORTER 6th May 2011
Violent clashes broke out around the world today as thousands of supporters of Osama bin Laden took to the streets to protest at the Al-Qaeda leader’s death.
While many protests took place across the Muslim world, the most extraordinary took place in London, where hundreds of supporters gathered at the U.S. embassy to stage a mock ‘funeral service’ for the slain terror leader.
The violence erupted just days after the city - often dubbed London-istan because of its reputation for Islamic extremism - was branded a major recruiting ground for Al Qaeda.
Dozens of police officers struggled with protesters who tried to storm the embassy with radicals carrying placards proclaiming that ‘Islam will dominate the world’ and branding U.S. leaders ‘murderers’.
‘It is only a matter of time before another atrocity - the West is the enemy,’ Abu Muaz, 28, from east London, said.
The protest comes amid heightened security in London fearing revenge attacks by Al-Qaeda.
Over the past decade, the media reported that London had become a ‘feeding ground for hate’ and a ‘magnet for terrorism’.
]b]The large Muslim community who live there are said to exploit civil liberties and openly preach jihad.
In fact, recent leaked documents showed that Britain’s mosques became an international haven for extremists who enjoyed state benefits while being trained for terrorism.
The WikiLeaks files, written by U.S. military chiefs, revealed that at least 35 Guantanamo terrorists were radicalised in London mosques before being sent to fight against the West.
This is believed to be more than any other Western country.
Of these, just 17 were British nationals or had been granted asylum, while 18 had travelled from abroad – cementing Britain’s reputation as a global training camp for terrorists….........
READ MORE at the above link - more photos too.
“Islam will dominate the world” - that’s their credo.
Now, why would they ditch the docs? I mean, if they were real refugees…:
Most asylum seekers to Australia dump their passports
Simon Benson From: The Daily Telegraph May 07, 2011
MORE than 80 per cent of asylum seekers arriving in Australia by boat throw away their passports before landing, presenting a security nightmare for ASIO and immigration authorities.
New figures obtained from the Department of Immigration and Citizenship revealed that 5213 people arriving illegally between 2008 and 2010 had first flown to Indonesia before boarding a boat to Australia.
But only 21 of those people still had passports with them by the time they were intercepted in Australian waters.
And less than a quarter of them had any documentation at all, raising the danger that people who posed a security risk could slip through the net.
Immigration Minister Chris Bowen yesterday said no one currently in the system being assessed had failed ASIO checks. But Opposition spokesman for Immigration Scott Morrison said it was impossible to know whether these people were who they claimed to be when they arrived without any identification.
“To travel by air you must have documentation. The decision to discard documentation is an act of defiance and non-co-operation with Australian authorities,” he said.
“The absence of documentation also leads to significant delays in processing and security assessment that detainees now complain about.
“The practice of discarding documentation is routine among asylum seekers using people smugglers and is designed to frustrate Australian authorities trying to determine whether a person has a legitimate asylum claim.
“They are clearly counting on being given the benefit of the doubt.”
NOW even the Gillard Government knows the truth about its bungled refugee program.
The people it’s bringing in are costing us billions, with 85 per cent of refugees on Centrelink benefits in their first five years here.
Worse, it’s the “refugees” who push in—the boat people we don’t pick, and who exploit the Government’s weak laws—who cost us most.
The vast majority of boat people say they are from Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran and Sri Lanka, and these are exactly the refugees most likely to be unemployed and living on welfare, even after five years.
Just 9 per cent of Afghan adults have a job and 94 per cent receive benefits, which means every boatload of Afghans landing here is a boatload almost entirely of people we’ll be paying handouts to for years.
And since January last year, more than 3300 Afghans have sailed here.
It’s the same story among Iranian adults, just 12 per cent of whom work.
Sri Lankans have a better employment rate—34 per cent, but even that is still lower than the rate among African refugees, almost none of whom come by boat, being selected by us from refugee camps instead.
These are just some of the alarming revelations in a first-ever survey commissioned by the Immigration Department of 8500 people accepted under our humanitarian program.
And they are findings that should have us ask not just how much Labor has cost us by putting the people smugglers back in business by weakening the boat people laws in 2008.
It also should have us ask the tough question Denmark just did: what does it cost us to bring in people from countries with very different and poorer cultures?
Denmark’s answer is “too much”.
Its Government this month issued a report suggesting migrants from non-Western countries cost the state $3.5 billion a year, while those from the West contributed $450 million in taxes.
It added that by toughening up its immigration laws in 2001, mainly to deter immigrants from poorer and Muslim countries, Denmark saved itself $10 billion over 10 years, largely in social security payments.
“Now that we can see that it does matter who comes into the country, I have no scruples in further restricting those who one can suspect will be a burden on Denmark,” Integration Minister Sren Pind declared….........
He’s not the son of God, just the support act
Aaron Cook SMH May 28, 2011
CHRISTIANS in Sydney will have their core beliefs challenged by provocative advertisements due to appear on billboards and buses in the next month.
The ads, paid for by an Islamic group called MyPeace, will carry slogans such as ‘‘Jesus: a prophet of Islam’‘, ‘‘Holy Quran: the final testament’’ and ‘‘Muhammad: mercy to mankind’‘.
A phone number urges people to call to receive a free Koran and other Islamic literature.
The organiser of MyPeace, Diaa Mohamed, said the campaign was intended to educate non-Muslims about Islam. He said Jesus was a prophet of Islam, who was to come before Muhammad. ‘‘The only difference is we say he was a prophet of God, and they say he is God,’’ Mr Mohamed said. ‘‘Is it thought-provoking? Yes, it is. We want to raise awareness that Islam believes in Jesus Christ,’’ he said.
Mr Mohamed said he hoped the billboards would encourage Christians and Muslims to find common ground. They were not intended to downgrade the significance of Jesus. ‘‘We embrace him and say that he was one of the mightiest prophets of God.’‘
MyPeace plans to extend the campaign, funded by private donations, to television.
The Anglican Bishop of South Sydney, Rob Forsyth, said it was ‘‘complete nonsense’’ to say Jesus was a prophet of Islam. ‘‘Jesus was not the prophet of a religion that came into being 600 years later.’‘
But the billboard was not offensive, he said. ‘‘They’ve got a perfect right to say it, and I would defend their right to say it [but] … you couldn’t run a Christian billboard in Saudi Arabia.’‘
The bishop said he would pay for billboards to counter those of MyPeace if he could afford it, and ‘‘maybe the atheists should run their billboards as well’‘.
A spokesman for the Australian Islamic Mission, Siddiq Buckley, said the campaign would increase awareness of the positive facts of Islam. ‘‘I would be looking at this as a good opportunity to explain what we mean.’‘
Islam’s billboard ads could be a great opportunity for CHRISTIANS to talk about the REAL JESUS - and not the veiled misinterpretation that is in the Koran. Now that Sydney Muslims have raised the issue of who Jesus is - what an opportunity for debate indeed. Bring it on gladly we say.
Really, Muslims need to know the Christian message, and what the gospel says. They continue to remain ignorant of this because they only receive a distorted version which supports their argument.
They have been getting the wool pulled over their eyes for over 1500 years.
Jesus was God’s last Prophet. Jesus was God’s complete message to mankind, needing no further prophets - only people prophesying in the name of Jesus by spreading the gospel message in Jesus’ words.
Mohammad was a poor specimen of a man compared to Jesus by all historical accounts. If only Muslims could hear the Gospel according to eyewitnesses to Jesus’ life, and ignore the false claims by Muslim leaders. (Muslims, please read all we know about Jesus, and then read all that is known about Mohammad. - And dont just read the Muslim version - it is corrupted)
Islamisists say the bible and gospels have been changed and corrupted, but without any proof of this. Are there any muslim leaders ready to engage in an honest debate about its claims? I would guess no. They are more intent on gagging and censuring open debate. Mohammad is foolishly beyond investigation or criticism for his claims. Islam has a damage control mechanism built into its system. They protect their turf by any means - murder included. Hence we see people being slain for simply depicting Mohammad in a cartoon etc.
Islam is more interested in its conquest of the world, for its own selfish political reasons. They are more interested in gaining territory by Islamic colonial expansionist aims. That has been the pattern since the 7th century. It is a self serving network of deluded cultists.
Many people in the Middle East say Islam doesn’t work - but they are denied freedom from its chains, and are fobidden to question it openly.
...why not thank the Lord for the MyPeace advertisements, and as the Apostle Paul did at the Areopagus, seize the opportunity to tell Muslims that Jesus is not merely a prophet, but the Son of God and Saviour who died that they all may be free from the law of Allah which binds?
“Men of Islam! I see that in every way you are very religious. For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found a billboard with this inscription: JESUS: A PROPHET OF ISLAM. Now what you worship as Isa the prophet I am going to proclaim to you…
This is a model for Christian proclamation. St Paul does not condemn the Athenians’ idolatrous false religion: he begins by commending their conviction to their faith. By employing the language of reason and invitation rather than reproach and condemnation, he offers the Church a model for proclamation in our own ‘multicultural’ time. He quotes the Greek poets and sees the light within their philosophy, and he builds on this to articulate the name of the God who is the source and destination of their quest for salvation.
If Greek philosophy can be a legitimate discourse for evangelism, then so can Islamic theology, however perverted a particular interpretation may be. If St Paul were to preach in Bradford (or Sydney or Brisbane) today, he would not vandalise offensive billboards or return hatred for offence. But neither would he ignore the statement and ‘turn the other cheek’: he would tell of the God of love who sent His own Son to die in order that we might live. He would begin by praising their loyalty and devotion to Isa their prophet, and then he would tell them that their lower-case prophet is also Prophet, Priest and King; the Word of God; the Spirit of God; Saviour and Redeemer of the world.
This is an opportunity for evangelism – to discuss who Jesus really is – and it is a Muslim group which is paying for it.
MUSLIMS in Australia were urged yesterday to join the uprisings that have toppled regimes across the Middle East, to renounce moderate forms of the religion and to reject democracy, during a day-long conference sponsored by a radical Islamic organisation.
Hizb ut-Tahrir, a fundamentalist group that calls for the establishment of a caliphate stretching from the Middle East to Indonesia, hosted the event at Lidcombe, which drew about 1000 people.
Talks included ‘‘The Muslim World in the 20th century: totalitarian Western oppression’’ and ‘‘Western endeavours to frustrate the Islamic revival’‘.
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The group maintains a stance against violence, but says Muslims are obliged to engage in armed resistance against Israel and against the presence of foreign troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. ‘‘If it [the land] is occupied, they [Muslims] have a right and a duty to resist that occupation,’’ its spokesman, Uthman Badar, said.
Asked if that meant the targeting of Australian troops, Mr Badar said, ‘‘I would not go beyond saying that a military occupation is rightly resisted militarily.’‘
’‘The role of the Australian government has … been intrusive and exploitative.’‘
The group is proscribed in Germany for anti-Semitism, and Russia declared it a criminal organisation in 1999.
There have been unsuccessful calls to ban the group in Britain and Australia.
Wassim Kabbara, 33, said he had come to the conference as a ‘‘litmus test for me … to see what these guys are doing versus what the West is trying to do’‘. He agreed with themes at the conference that ‘‘Islam and democracy do not come together’‘.
The keynote speaker, Dr Mohammad Jeelani, said the West had decided to ‘‘plant a cancer in the Muslim world’‘, and that cancer was the state of Israel.
The group openly rejects democratic government and tells Muslims in Australia to boycott elections.
Hi all.
I’ve been letter-box-dropped with an Islamic promotional pamphlet.
The front has a circular dot-picture with the question ‘what do you see?
and has a website www whatdoyousee dot org dot au
It’s main suggestion is people have the wrong idea about Islam.
It also has a several deliberate digs at Christianity,in a similar vein to the recent billboards.
I wondered who else has got one, and have been thinking about counter-apologetics.
The website doesn’t appear to have a complete copy of the flier, but gives its ‘answers’ to questions posed on the flier, plus other stuff. (I haven’t read their answers.)
Of particular note in the flier, is in point one of its summary: (Their capitalisation and bold)
Muslims believe there is only one God….and we should NOT worship His Messengers.
This is clearly aimed at Christian belief. It’s even clearer in context, as the flier makes a repeated point of mentioning Jesus.
Muslims believe there is only one God….and we should NOT worship His Messengers.
There seems to be some semantics going on here in light of how they seemingly revere Muhammed. And isn’t it interesting how they see the defining difference between Islam and Christianity as Jesus ? Who would disagree with that statement - although the Koran paints a different picture of him.
That website is also interesting. When I looked at the graphic, I couldn’t see the word ‘ISLAM’. What I did see was ‘I AM’ - which has a totally different perspective to a Christian.
The whole language of the Koran ( and those who quote it ) generally communicates badly. On that website’s page on the Resurrection it says :
Naturally, as Allah has said, if Jesus was taken to Himself without dying, then the resurrection does not come into this – “ for of a surety they killed him not – Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.” Nevertheless, in the Qur’an in the message Jesus gave to his mother’s family he spoke of his death and resurrection: “So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the Day that I shall be raised up to life (again).”(Q. 19:33)
So what are we seeing here? Is this some inconsistency? God forbid! At present Jesus is still living, he has never died, though certainly he shall and then on the Day, that is the Day of Judgment he will be raised again. Therefore, we are pointed to the fact that Jesus will return to this Earth.
Where does one start to try and equate statements like that with what they write elsewhere that condemns Christianity ? Other than, if that is what they believe about Jesus, then Islam is not another religion - but rather it is another Christian cult that has wandered from the truth - and denies the Resurrection.
Andrew Bolt alerts readers about the dangers of speaking the truth about Islam :
The restrictions on free speech are becoming absolutely insane when you can be investigated for hate speech against Muslims for simply saying what is in the Koran and the sacred Hadith:
THE radio presenter Michael Smith is being investigated by the media watchdog over his assertion that the prophet Muhammad ‘’married a nine-year-old and consummated it when she was 11’’.
The Australian Communications and Media Authority confirmed in a letter dated July 21 that it was investigating the remarks by the 2UE afternoon host.
Adem Cetinay, a Muslim from Bossley Park, complained that Mr Smith was inciting hatred against Muslims through his July 5 broadcast.
‘’By making this remark he is asserting that God’s messenger is a paedophile. This is racist, it’s stupid and it is not needed on air,’’ he wrote to the station’s program director, Peter Brennan.
In fact, the joke is that Smith was too kind to Mohammad. Islamic teaching is that the Prophet in fact consumated his marriage with Aisha when she was nine, not 11:
Bukhari :: Book 7 :: Volume 62 :: Hadith 88
Narrated ‘Ursa: The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with ‘Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).
If saying what is in the Islamic texts is a hate crime, every imam should tremble.
The Australian Communications and Media Authority confirmed in a letter dated July 21 that it was investigating the remarks by the 2UE afternoon host. Adem Cetinay, a Muslim from Bossley Park, complained that Mr Smith was inciting hatred against Muslims through his July 5 broadcast.
’‘However, at no time did he refer to any Prophet’s name, nor did he use the word ‘Prophet’. He did not refer to anybody whatsoever in the broadcast,’’ he wrote.
Mr Cetinay took his complaint to ACMA. In a letter, the authority’s Eileen Haley said it would embark on an investigation that could take ‘‘several months’‘.
Meanwhile, Mr Cetinay is awaiting a response over a separate complaint about remarks Mr Smith made over the controversial ‘‘Jesus: a prophet of Islam’’ billboard.
’‘What if someone whacked up a billboard and said well, I think it’s a fact that because Muhammad was married to a 11 … you know consummating a marriage with an 11-year-old, by these standards he’s a paedophile”. His guest, Diaa Mohammed, the founder of MyPeace, which erected the sign, agreed that Muhammad had consummated his marriage with an 11-year-old.
What is the Islamic 11th commandment ? “Thou shalt not tell the truth” obviously.
Crazy isn’t it ? I am also forever fed up with Muslims pulling out the ‘racist’ accusation card whenever anyone points out any fault whatsoever. Enough is enough.
Reminds me to go and read the Koran before I die, which I keep putting off (something which I’ve never done).
Am interested to know for sure whether Mohammed ‘consummated his marriage’ with a 11-year-old, 9-year-old, or I have heard from one source 7-year-old (one of many things).
Reminds me to go and read the Koran before I die, which I keep putting off (something which I’ve never done).
Arthur, Grammatically your sentence reads that you keep putting off dying - is this what you meant ?
Seriously, having tried to read the Koran myself, I wish you well. I found the language so confusing and hard to follow. The ‘logic’ within the text seemed so illogical at times, it defied reasoning to me.
The most helpful explanation of Islam to me is it’s like an ancient territorial war-god cult, (which was standard in the ANE), inflated to global dimensions, while assimilating and appropriating ideas from other religions (Judaism, Christianity…)
The post-modern mindset may be ill-equiped to sort out and challenge the inconsistencies and contradictions presented in Islam.
Muslims believe there is only one God….and we should NOT worship His Messengers
There seems to be some semantics going on here in light of how they seemingly revere Muhammed.
I thought that too. The pamphlet also asserted that Muhammed confirmed that no prophet is to be worshipped. Right.
And isn’t it interesting how they see the defining difference between Islam and Christianity as Jesus ?
Good point. Thanks.
That website is also interesting.
It gave me the creeps. I couldn’t look at it for long.
When I looked at the graphic, I couldn’t see the word ‘ISLAM’. What I did see was ‘I AM’ - which has a totally different perspective to a Christian.
I saw that, too.
I take it no one else has been delivered the flyer?
The questions it posed were: -
Did you know…
*Muslims believe that Jesus will return?
*Islam pioneered rights for women long before the modern era?
*Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world?
*Islam most certainly does not permit terrorism?
*the reason behind Muslim women wering head scarves?
*Islam can improve your day-to-day life? It offers a solution for social ills such as alcoholism, gambling and depression
It seemed well-produced and targeted to me. I would guess that it’s a Ramadan initiative.
Reminds me to go and read the Koran before I die, which I keep putting off (something which I’ve never done).
Arthur, Grammatically your sentence reads that you keep putting off dying - is this what you meant ?
Seriously, having tried to read the Koran myself, I wish you well. I found the language so confusing and hard to follow. The ‘logic’ within the text seemed so illogical at times, it defied reasoning to me.
English isn’t my first language so please pardon me.
Although putting off dying wouldn’t be all that bad :)
Malek Fahd Islamic School ‘fees’ funding Australian Federation of Islamic Councils
THE nation’s peak Muslim body is extracting millions of dollars in rent and fees from a successful Islamic school in Sydney that draws most of its funding from taxpayers.
Documents reveal the Malek Fahd Islamic School paid the Australian Federation of Islamic Councils $5.2 million last year alone, an amount equal to one-third of the school’s educational funding from the federal and state governments.
An investigation by The Australian has uncovered millions of dollars in funds charged to the school, including unexplained “management fees”.
The school has also been charged $2.59m in back rent after AFIC retrospectively altered a lease agreement in 2009.
Last year, it paid $3.15m in “management fees” to AFIC, which included $2.2m in “management fees back charge”.
AFIC, also known as Muslims Australia, has not explained how the fees are being spent by the organisation, despite detailed questions from The Australian.
Malek Fahd, in Greenacre in Sydney’s west, received $15.7m in educational funding from the commonwealth and NSW governments last year, accounting for 74 per cent of its overall income.
[null]Does It Mean Anything that a Record Low Are 'Pro-Choice'?New York Times (blog)[{}]Asked to pick one of the two labels applied to the abortion debate, a full 50 percent said they were pro-life, whereas only 41 percent said they were pro-choice, down from the previous low of 42 percent recorded in May of 2009. Republicans are the most ...
[null]Obama vs. Catholics, Catholics vs. ObamaNew York Times (blog)[{}]This would frame the issue as yet another intra-Catholic dispute over sexuality and abortion, rather than an external assault on Catholic religious liberty. Seen in this light, Georgetown University's decision to invite Kathleen Sebelius, ...
[null]Rally fights for abortion law changeThe West Australian[{}]Liberal MP Peter Abetz has spoken out against WA's abortion laws, warning "the womb is most dangerous place for children to be in this State" at a rally last night attended by hundreds of right-to-life campaigners. Addressing the 750-strong rally at ...
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