mightychurch.com

This is a good article by Mark Driscoll written just after the US election.

http://theresurgence.com/in_god_we_do_not_trust

The link below is also interesting in relation the hope of change “yes we can” to Babel.

http://trevinwax.com/2009/01/21/echoes-of-babel-our-new-national-sin/

I thought I’d just split this out into it’s own thread, and maybe Alan D can comment now he has made the jump (thanks Alan! :).

It has been fascinating watching the whole American electoral cycle this time ‘round when people are really hankering for, and have got, political change.

It has also been fascinating seeing the quasi-religious language the candidates used prior to the election (the most striking of which to me was McCain describing what seemed like a conversion experience, where he lived no longer for himself, but for his country), and similar language being used around throughout by Obama and his ‘sermon’ on Wednesday, and seeing how intertwined faith is with American politics and mythology (the prayers etc).

Christians are pretty quick to point the finger and say “Idolatry! You need Jesus, not a politician!” which there is obviously a lot of truth too.

However, for me, it has been pretty inspiring to see the US march, however haphazardly, towards equality, progress and at least aiming to be a force for good in the world (and I’m the first to point out how disastrous the last eight years have been).

I have to admit being influenced by Alan D particularly on Syd Ang about this, and forced to reconsider how I see the US vis a vis their founding ideology. Of course, it’s easier to be more favourable when the political winds are blowing in your preferred direction, but still.. :)

I wonder if in Australia this seems particularly foreign to us given we were founded on the lofty ideals of being a convict colony, and, I think it’s fair to say, don’t share the same sense of nationalism.

I mean, is it really so bad that American ideology aspires to individual liberty and a greater good? Isn’t that largely what Western ideology is about?

Should our first reaction not be “Idolatry!” but, in a very humble, tempered way, something more positive, like it’s good we’re slowly moving forward as a civilisation?

I think sometimes we’re so keen to make the point that we’re still sinful, fallen people in a sinful, fallen world that needs a saviour, that we throw out the baby with the bathwater when progress, however slow and haphazard, does happen.

Heh, Luke I think it was me who wrote about this.

I spent my holidays last year watching both Republican and Democrat conventions pretty much in totality and analysed them and was fascinated by McCain’s repeated talk of being a convert to America.

http://www.sydneyanglicans.net/indepth/articles/better_the_devil_we_dont_know/

Myself and Byron Smith have been having a bit of ongoing blog (and private) dialogue about it.

Byron has developed some great insights into the Obama as Messiah thing infecting the West (although it must be emphasised he prefers Obama to Bush politically)

My view is that all nationalisms have a tendency towards idolatry, so to single out America is very strange. Indeed there is much to admire in the religiosity of American nationalism in contrast to the Australian secularist variety.

http://www.sydneyanglicans.net/indepth/articles/change_you_cannot_believe/

I’ve thought more about the messiah theme rather than the idolatry one.

The messiah theme is more apparent to me because of the strong sense in which hope is being placed in an individual to fix everything.

Of course a general hope and optimism regarding a new leader is a good thing.

But the hope invested is way out of proportion to what the messiah-figure can actually achieve. It is the idea that everything will change for the better because of this one man that leads to messiah-ism.

It is good that Obama promises and works toward improving things but the popular idea that he will be able to give the world global hope and peace is a bit much.

Obama is not a messiah in whom all hope should be directed. He is not able to bring in a messianic global peace and reverse creation’s groaning (e.g. global warming and environmental issues).

Again optimism is good but too much is being put on a messianic figure (based on the way I’ve heard non-Christians speak)and perhaps such hope in a messianic figure goes down in God’s books as an indication of the world’s rejection of the true messiah.

Hence the reference to the Mark Driscoll article above.

@Jeremy, haha oops, I actually meant Alan Dungey, but using “Alan D” when there’s two Al[l]an D’s was pretty dopey on my part, sorry. That said your articles are definitely along the same lines as what I was thinking, and yes it was the conversion experience in McCain’s speech at the Repub Convention that I found so striking too.

@Adam, yeah sure, I take the point, I just sometimes wonder whether Christian leaders are so quick to point that out that we don’t stop to acknowledge when something generally good has happened. An America back on track aspiring to her ideals is much better than one actively working against them. I wonder how much Driscoll and others realise just how far America’s standing in the world has fallen - that’s in part why the criticism rings a little a hollow (though I understand there’s a kernel of truth there) - if ever there was a time to be thankful for change & renewed hope in the US, now is probably it.

Luke as long as both aspects are emphasised> With regard to Obama I feel comfortable sharing people’s positive outlook while at the same time discrening what is counterfiet in terms of the world’s worldview.

I think as Christians we should be able to do both at the same time.